snob dining question

[Edge34]

Its far from my favorite fish, but its far from inedible as well.

I like the stuff.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
I ordered fish (Tilapia) and it was still raw in the middle of the thick part of the filet. I wasn't sure if it was supposed to be that way or if the cook fcked up. It tasted fine so I decided to not risk looking like a dildo by asking them to cook the thing all the way through.

[/ QUOTE ]

Boris, do you realize how bad this is? If you were given pork that wasn't fully cooked at a fine restaurant, would you still eat it? Ignorance is nothing to be ashamed of, stupidity is. Not asking is a stupid move IMO.

[ArchAngel71857]

[ QUOTE ]
If it was at Luce.......it was done right [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

My Uncle/cousin was or is a Co-owner.

True Story.

[/ QUOTE ]

too bad it wasn't a good one.

-AA

[nolanfan34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If it was at Luce.......it was done right [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

My Uncle/cousin was or is a Co-owner.

True Story.

[/ QUOTE ]

too bad it wasn't a good one.

-AA

[/ QUOTE ]

We'll give you mulligans for your last 5 posts, and count this one as 1600, OK? Funny stuff.

[Boris]

Well I eat quite a bit of raw fish. Sushi restaurants are common around here and dishes containing seared ahi are also popular. That's why I wasn't overly concerned about food contamination. I also have an absolute iron stomach. I'm not sure any of those nasty organisms can survive the wrath of my digestive acids. Germs just don't seem to affect me.

[ArchAngel71857]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If it was at Luce.......it was done right [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

My Uncle/cousin was or is a Co-owner.

True Story.

[/ QUOTE ]

too bad it wasn't a good one.

-AA

[/ QUOTE ]

We'll give you mulligans for your last 5 posts, and count this one as 1600, OK? Funny stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think my 1600th post was the first time I just posted a quote from someone in the previous thread. i was making fun of all those pooh bah threads where people give shout outs to all those that helped me along the way, then Ray Zee bitch slapped me with baby powder.

-AA

[anisotropy]

[ QUOTE ]
It's a little known fact that the "tilapia" was formerly known as the slime fish. Someone discovered it tasted pretty good and was fairly abundant so they decided to make a market for it. The only thing holding it back was the name. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

True story.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is also true of Chilean Sea Bass, the most trendy fish of the last 10 years. Originally called by it's true name, Patagonian toothfish, it couldn't sell. Slap on a hip name and charge $40 a plate for it and now it's in danger of being overfished.

Gotta love marketing.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
I also have an absolute iron stomach. I'm not sure any of those nasty organisms can survive the wrath of my digestive acids. Germs just don't seem to affect me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Boris.... wake the [censored] up. Sushi comes from specially prepared food and follows very high standards. It also requires special chefs to prepare.

As for seafood surviving your iron stomach, check these books out:

Deardorff, T.L. and Overstreet, R.M., 1991, Seafood-transmitted zoonoses in the United States: the fishes, the dishes, and the worms, Microbiology of Marine Food Products, D.R. Ward and C. Hackney, eds, Van Nostrand Reinhold, New York, pp 211-265. ISBN 0 442 23346 9

Harinasatu, T., Pungpak, S. and Keystone, J.S. (1993). Trematode infections. Opisthorchiasis, clonorchiasis, fascioliasis, and paragonimiasis. Infectious Disease Clinics of North America, 7, 699-716

Hoffman, G.L. 1999, Parasites of North American freshwater fishes; with a foreword by Ernest H. Williams, Jr. 2nd ed., Comstock Pub. Associates, Ithaca, NY. ISBN 0801434092

After looking through these books, and you still think you were right not to ask, please let me know.

The only way to become educated about something you don't know is to ask questions and search for information, so you've taken the right step toward learning more about possible negative health effects of your gastronomical tastes. The article you read was indeed correct — people can get hepatitis A, worms, and other pathogens from eating raw fish or shellfish.

The hepatitis A virus can be found in raw shellfish, but it is not common in other seafood. Hepatitis A, unlike types B and C, does not cause long-term or chronic illness. The liver becomes inflamed, but will heal completely in most people without permanent damage, and the infected individual will then have immunity for life. Symptoms of hepatitis A can include:

* fever
* tiredness
* loss of appetite
* abdominal discomfort
* dark urine
* jaundice (yellow skin)
* nausea
* no symptom at all

Hepatitis A's incubation period (the time it takes from eating the food until beginning to exhibit symptoms) ranges from 15 to 50 days, with an average of about 4 weeks. Infected individuals can be sick for up to 6 months. You can take a blood test to see if you've already been exposed to hepatitis A, and you can also receive a vaccine, which sounds like a good idea in your case. If you're a Columbia student, call Primary Care Medical Services at x4-2284 for an appointment, or see your own health care provider for either the antibody test or vaccine. Hepatitis A is killed by heat, so it is not a concern for those enjoying cooked shellfish dishes.

Worms (and worm eggs) can be a concern when consuming raw fish. Worms are killed when the fish is cooked or completely frozen, but can be passed on in the raw state. This includes not just sashimi or sushi, but also some other popular dishes, such as partially raw seared fish fillets and ceviche — raw fish marinated in lime or other citrus juice. Most worms will pass through the digestive system without causing any problems, but two can cause infections: roundworm larvae and a type of tapeworm species, diphyllobothrium. Infection by either of these two parasites can result in abdominal discomfort, diarrhea, fatigue, and feelings of weakness in the arms and legs. Though the risk is low, it can be further reduced by purchasing fish from reputable stores and also eating at reputable restaurants. Trained sushi chefs have learned how to identify worms or worm eggs in fish, and reputable packing houses use a process called candling (quite simple: holding the fish to light) to check for worms in the fillets.

Raw shellfish, such as oysters on the half shell, and raw fish pose two more possible threats: vibrio bacteria and the Norwalk virus. Vibrio bacteria, including Vibrio vulnificus and Vibrio parahaemolyticus, can be killed by cooking. Some popular myths claim that hot sauce, alcohol, or citric acid in the form of citrus juice can kill bacteria and viruses in shellfish, but this isn't true. The presence of vibrio does not alter the appearance, smell, and taste of seafood in any way. Symptoms of vibrio infection, which can be transmitted through contact of an open wound with infected seawater, as well as by consuming raw fish and shellfish, include abdominal pain, vomiting, and diarrhea. Infected individuals can also experience skin lesions filled with fluid. The infection is treated with antibiotics. Vibrio is especially dangerous for immunocompromised people, who could develop toxic shock and die.

The Norwalk virus, similar to vibrio, causes nausea, diarrhea, and abdominal discomfort. Infected individuals may also experience fever and headaches, but the infection will pass on its own and leave no long-term negative health effects.

Raw shellfish can also contain the bacteria that cause cholera and gastroenteritis, and the toxin that causes paralytic shellfish poisoning (PSP). Both cholera and gastroenteritis result in vomiting and diarrhea, and the treatment for either focuses on rehydration to replenish the fluids lost. Antibiotics may also be prescribed in the case of cholera. PSP can cause numbness in the mouth and muscular paralysis; it can, in some cases, lead to death. There is no treatment to cure PSP, only support for the patient. PSP is also a small risk in cooked shellfish, as heat does not kill the responsible toxin. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) ensures that the risk for PSP is miniscule by monitoring fishing waters, as mentioned above, and the presence of the toxin in a harvesting area will lead to a discontinuation of that area's approval and the destruction of any shellfish already harvested. Almost all of the very small number of cases in the United States is the result of groups harvesting their own shellfish from waters that had already been determined to be unsafe. These three illnesses, rare in the U.S., are more common in other areas of the world, especially in developing countries.

For all of the above reasons, people with the following conditions need to abstain completely from eating raw fish or shellfish:

* liver disease
* HIV/AIDS
* diabetes
* stomach disorders
* inflammatory bowel disease
* cancer
* abnormal iron metabolism
* other autoimmune disorders

Again, buying or eating raw shellfish from reputable providers and at reputable establishments are ways of decreasing the risk of illness. The FDA approves certain waters for shellfish harvesting, and all approved shellfish shippers are required to mark where their shellfish come from. A good fishmonger can show the tags, upon request. The FDA also publishes a list of approved shellfish shippers monthly. If you harvest shellfish yourself, note or research the postings on the safety of your local waters.

Cooking kills almost all of the pathogens listed above, except for the toxin that causes PSP, and complete freezing also kills many of them. All the traditional methods of cooking seafood, including grilling, poaching, baking, and frying, will do the job, as will hot smoking. Cold smoking without thorough freezing beforehand, however, does not kill pathogens, since the fish never reaches a sufficient temperature. You can check the labeling of smoked fish products to determine whether it was hot or cold smoked if you're concerned.

Your specific interest in incurable illnesses suggests that you're willing to risk temporary illness for your gastronomical pleasure. Risks posed by raw or undercooked seafood is actually relatively low compared to other means of transmitting food borne illnesses. The only tiny risk of an incurable sickness is posed by PSP. You decide how much the risks compare to your enjoying the freshest of the seas' harvest.

http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/2595.html