AT question

[DoctorDrew]

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I don't know about raising under the gun with A-10... Anyone that reraises you is likely to have you dominated, and I don't think A-10o is profitable enough to make up for having to fold it to a reraise or on the flop. Maybe if you play well enough postflop you can make up for it, but I don't know if this is the optimal preflop play.

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Some are big advocates of raising UTG and some not. Kinda like KQo UTG. True you must be very careful if reraised; but also true that by raising you prevent a lot of dangerous hands from seeing the flop that would otherwise have seen it if they only had to limp behind other limpers.

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AJo and KQo are grouped together.. ATo is not in the same league. are you sure you are talking about ATo? ATo is PF muck UTG for most people here.

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Put me in the muck group (unless the table is really fishy 70% VPIP, low PFR). I would play it otherwise as in spider's previous post.

[BriPlay]

thanks for the post.
My take:
ATo: limp limp limp
ATS limp raise raise

be carful after the flop!

Brian

[Catt]

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I don't know about raising under the gun with A-10... Anyone that reraises you is likely to have you dominated, and I don't think A-10o is profitable enough to make up for having to fold it to a reraise or on the flop. Maybe if you play well enough postflop you can make up for it, but I don't know if this is the optimal preflop play.

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Some are big advocates of raising UTG and some not. Kinda like KQo UTG. True you must be very careful if reraised; but also true that by raising you prevent a lot of dangerous hands from seeing the flop that would otherwise have seen it if they only had to limp behind other limpers.

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AJo and KQo are grouped together.. ATo is not in the same league. are you sure you are talking about ATo? ATo is PF muck UTG for most people here.

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Really? That seems wrong to me. If AJ is a raise PF (and I think it is for most here?), shouldn't AT be at least a limp? Maybe I am playing a LAGtastic game. I checked my PT stats at 2/4, and though the sample size is pretty small, ATo is quite profitable from EP for me. (Interestingly, I rarely raised it at 1/2 when I was less comfortable with my game).

UTG I am raising it 60% of the time.
UTG+1 I am raising it 57.4% of the time.
UTG+2 I am raising it 76.4% of the time.

Even the donkish "average" player via Pokerroom stats show it as at worst mildly -EV (though it doesn't break out limp versus raise). Edit: And the "mildly -EV" is more generally more than the blind cost of each hand.

[FishHooks]

Depeonds on the game, I think its profitable to raise UTG in most of the micro limit games, depending on how well you play post flop.

[HollywoodDB]

I like limp, limp, raise. But I am a tard.

[Saint_D]

From http://www.pokerroom.com/games/evsta...php?players=10

Ev by seat.


<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Cards SB BB 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 D
AA 2.72 2.81 2.48 2.53 2.73 2.76 2.79 2.77 2.89 2.96
ATo -0.08 -0.04 -0.07 -0.02 0.02 0.01 -0.00 0.03 -0.00 0.00
</pre><hr />

This hand is close from any postition. I personally would ditch it until at least MP. If you are in late position it might be worth playing. You would need to have some postflop skill to make it pay.

[HollywoodDB]

Thanks for this list. Very helpful. So as the list reads A10o in EP, has a -.07 BB EV..?

[Aaron W.]

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From http://www.pokerroom.com/games/evsta...php?players=10

Ev by seat.


<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
Cards SB BB 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 D
AA 2.72 2.81 2.48 2.53 2.73 2.76 2.79 2.77 2.89 2.96
ATo -0.08 -0.04 -0.07 -0.02 0.02 0.01 -0.00 0.03 -0.00 0.00
</pre><hr />

This hand is close from any postition. I personally would ditch it until at least MP. If you are in late position it might be worth playing. You would need to have some postflop skill to make it pay.

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Be careful when you use these numbers. They represent the "average" Pokerroom player. This hand is close *for the average player* in any position. An intelligent player should be able to outperform the average player, which moves this into the profitable range (though margianlly so up front).

[chesspain]

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1) UTG at a standard table. Limp? Raise?-&gt;-&gt;-&gt;Fold


2) UTG+1 or UTG+2 with one so-so limper. Limp or raise?-&gt;-&gt;-&gt;Fold


3) On the button after a bunch of passive limpers. Limp or raise? What's a bunch? How do they play post-flop? With no other info, I'ld probably Limp


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[Saint_D]

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Be careful when you use these numbers. They represent the "average" Pokerroom player. This hand is close *for the average player* in any position. An intelligent player should be able to outperform the average player, which moves this into the profitable range (though margianlly so up front).

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Agreed.