Understanding Poker Conceptually, Experts Please Respond

[Slacker]

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the real trick is to get in his head and figure out what HE would think in his position. once you can do that you are on you're way to expert play.

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Of course at that point, he may realize that you've gotten him figured out, so he's changed gears and you'll completely misread him.

"what do his actions tell me?"
"what does he think I think his actions tell me?"

It goes on forever. That's what I really like about poker, it's like a game version "spy vs. spy"...for every tactic there is a counter-measure, and a counter-measure to the counter-measure, etc......

[jan33]

yep me to
really a good one

[Piers]

Once you factor out people all that is left is numbers.

Understand the numbers and work up, play with concepts and work down. Try and get the two to meet.

Take any situation your unsure about and model it mathematically. Don’t underestimate the scope of the maths. Don’t be afraid to get dirty. Did you see it? Try again with a similar problem. Can you see a pattern yet? Try approaching it from a different direction; Can you see things more clearly now?

[Popinjay]

[ QUOTE ]
Once you factor out people all that is left is numbers.

Understand the numbers and work up, play with concepts and work down. Try and get the two to meet.

Take any situation your unsure about and model it mathematically. Don’t underestimate the scope of the maths. Don’t be afraid to get dirty. Did you see it? Try again with a similar problem. Can you see a pattern yet? Try approaching it from a different direction; Can you see things more clearly now?

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this really the right way to go? Lately I have been trying to learn the game from this approach--almost the approach that I would take trying to program a computer to play poker. It just doesn't seem right to play in this manner for some reason to me. What do you guys think?

[flair1239]

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There is where the fun begins... That's why I cannot understand why I don't play one (max 2) tables instead of 3-4...

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Because it is unecessary. On many levels your opponents are either so confused or nonthinking that trying to figure out what they are thinking is a waste of time.

Go back through your hands, not the big huge money making ones; but the bread and butter you have TPTK bet the flop, turn , river and win a 6-9BB pot. Look at what some of your opponents showdown.

Another eye opener is go ahead and calculate what percentage of your profit comes from AA and KK.

Not to say there are not some very interesting decisions to be made here and there. But the reason to play 3-4 tables, is that 80% of your decisions are no-brainers.

I say this while acknowledging that the other 20% is what separates someone like Sklansky from someone like me.

[Piers]

Depends on you. Its your mind your trying to get to grasp things, whats works for me migth not work for you.

Keep tryring. I typicaly feel totally lost and confused until I see it.

[Good Idea]

When I play online it's all about the math. I keep notes on people and their starting requirements. But other than that it's simply pot odds. Playing low limits online doesn't require a deep understanding of the game. When I play live I want to get into my opponents head and see his body language. But even then it's still mostly about figuring out where you are in the hand and running the numbers in your head.

[YourFoxyGrandma]

Harrington on Hold 'Em, while tournament based, gives some very in-depth analysis of the thinking that should go on during every part of a hand. Even if you're not a tournament player, it's worth a read. Also, anything by Bob Ciaffone; His style of writing focuses on thinking as well.

[Dov]

Hey Jay,

You're right. Once you reach a certain level, almost everyone in the game knows enough of the relevant math concepts that they start to become irrelevant.

IMHO, table image is extremely important, especially at higher limits. The beginning of the rock paper scissors game that I play with my image starts with my cards and develops from there.

The main reason for this is that when I first sit down in the game, I consider myself to have no reads. This is true even if I have played with someone before. This is because I don't want to assume anything. He may be playin differently today for any number of reasons than he normally does, including deception.

Anyway, if I'm getting involved in a lot of hands right away, I am immediately aware of the effect that this will have on my image and adjust my play accordingly.

Conversely, if I don't get a hand for an hour, my image may be so tight that I will try to run a stone cold bluff UTG just to see what people are thinking of me right now. Did they all lay down quickly? Did I get 3 bet? Was it by a strong player who could just be playing with me?

How I react here will depend on the image I want to portray and what I want them to think about me. I could be wrong about what they will conclude, but I will spend this money on marketing. Later on, this type of play will screw up the math to a degree because the hands you could hold will be outside the normal range of hands you might play.

I use my image to get into my opponent's heads. Not by guessing what they think of me, but by telling them what to think of me. I keep telling them until they get it. Once they get it, I switch gears.

If I feel that I can't control a table strongly enough, I will leave. After I'm gone, I will think about how to control those opponent's who gave me problems until I have a probable solution.

I hope this is more like what you're looking for.

By the way, I enjoyed our HULA matches.

Dov

[jwg152]

Disregard Doyle's NL chapter in Super System, and play about a million hands. That'll do it for NL.