Help. Girlfriend has botulism.

[nothumb]

He's not even talking about personal responsibility, he's just pointing out that the person he's responding to doesn't seem to understand the decision making process in question (in his opinion) and pointing out that they are often not so simple.

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However, remember that the vast majority of people are in the situation they are in, good or bad, soley based on their own actions. Work hard and smart and succeed, or don't.


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You decided to take that as an opportunity to blame the poor for their predicament. First of all, none of this has anything to do with me or my gf, since her lifestyle is by choice and she has backup. Second, the kind of lecture you are giving (unprompted and out of place, I might add) justifies plunder and greed and minimizes the struggle of people who are genuinely caught in a cycle of poverty created by dead-end jobs, outsourcing, predatory lenders and unfair tax structures. In short, it's smug and stupid and wrong.


The rest of your post does not indicate that you are devoid of compassion or decency. However this part you should seriously rethink.

NT

[Dead]

This tangential issue belongs in politics, as you said, but you made good points(specifically the points concerning predatory lending and unfair tax structures).

[nothumb]

Wacki I really just posted this hoping you would be trolling around, but whatev. You're late.

NT

[wacki]

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Wacki I really just posted this hoping you would be trolling around, but whatev. You're late.

NT

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I'm doing less and less wetlab work now so I won't have as much time for OOT due to the lack of downtime. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] It's good though as I feel like I'm being much more productive.

Hopefully I'll be able to find a job in New England so we can do this in person. Not to mention you won't have to use the girly tactic of crying wolf just to get attention. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] BTW, who normally comes to the rescue in situations like this? The man or the woman? I forget. [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img]

[moondogg]

Hey, I apologize for hijacking your thread. It was a an extension of the idea that she should have health insurance, and followed in term by my believe that "it's not that simple" is used too loosely.

I don't deny being smug. It's one of my more charming attributes, if you believe that.

It seems that our views would differ greatly on why people succeed, and I would never make an apology for my views. However, you're correct, this is not the place to discuss it, and so I apologize for the timing and geography.

[Skipbidder]

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The doctor wouldn't have been able to do much about it.

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Um wrong again. Antitoxins and ventilatory assistance are the mainstay in fighting botulism.

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Perhaps next time you are thinking of being such a complete jackass, you might go back and read for comprehension first.
Original poster's girfriend didn't have botulism, just the fear of botulism. CDC records indicate fewer than 30 cases of adult foodborne botulinum on average per year in the US. Original poster suggested to his girlfriend that she go to the doctor. When I said that a doctor wouldn't have been able to do much for her, what I meant was that a doctor wouldn't have been able to do much for her. Sorry to use such tricky words.


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Cooking will destroy the spores.

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No, cooking destroys the toxin. The spores can survive boiling water. You have to cook under pressure.

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I'll admit to being sloppy here. At least you selectively quoted it in order not to allow the original meaning to get through. I said that spores in foods that were insufficiently cooked and then placed in an anaerobic environment, it might allow for formation of toxin. Cooking may not be sufficient to destroy spores. The temperature necessary depends on which strain is present and the alkalinity of the food. If you really wish to be picky about it, then you are wrong here as well. Spores of some of the strains are certainly destroyed by boiling without the need for pressure.

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I suspect that she would have been disappointed if she made a clinic appointment and actually got in. She would have been VERY frustrated if she tried an ER visit. In the absence of eye problems or swallowing problems (or some other evidence of cranial nerve problems), she would have gotten a very low triage priority.

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Interesting that you quote this as well. Either you didn't read it, or you are extraordinarily stupid. If you did read it and comprehend it, you would have understood what I meant when I said that a doc wouldn't be able to do much of anything for her.

[willie]

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Could it be your girlfriend is a total psycho drama queen freak and you should be so lucky to have her die of botulism?

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lmfao

[thewarden]

DING!DING!DING!DING!
We have a winner!

Sometimes having insurance still doesn't prevent you from still racking up $20,000 worth of medical costs. Until you're there, don't judge too quickly. Things always look rosy from the top but trudging through the valleys gives you a whole different perspective. I'd go further into depth on the issue but it's neither the time or the place.

NT, hope your lady friend makes it to PR without anything exploding out of her stomach a la Aliens.

[wacki]

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Perhaps next time you are thinking of being such a complete jackass, you might go back and read for comprehension first. Original poster's girfriend didn't have botulism, just the fear of botulism.

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Hey I wasn't the one being sloppy. You said "it would be incredibly foolish to dispense medical advice in absence of any sort of examination." followed by I would never be so foolish, so the rest of this post surely can't be medical advice. which was followed by The doctor wouldn't have been able to do much about it. which was followed by You can PM me if you have any further questions.

Do you see a problem there? Also: possible offer of peer review free authoritative advice + many contradictions = trouble

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If you really wish to be picky about it, then you are wrong here as well. Spores of some of the strains are certainly destroyed by boiling without the need for pressure.

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Well you were giving him advice on how to kill the spores in food he might eat. You gave bad advice and I corrected you, so no I don't think I was wrong in that context.

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Interesting that you quote this as well. Either you didn't read it, or you are extraordinarily stupid. If you did read it and comprehend it, you would have understood what I meant when I said that a doc wouldn't be able to do much of anything for her.


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I still stand by my statement.

Look, you obviously have read a website or maybe even a paper about botulism. I commend you for atleast going that far, and I'm glad you can admit you were sloppy. I make mistakes too. I just think you gave bad advice and you need to be very careful when talking about deadly diseases because people may end up getting the wrong idea. Those kind of mistakes can cost lives.

[nothumb]

I never said anything about this not being the time or place, only that you were poking your nose without any real prompting and that says a lot about you. But you acknowledged those characteristics to which I am referring so that point is moot. I have no problem discussing this now because it's something I happen to know a bit about, from experience as well as study.

Clearly you believe that the majority of instances of poverty or struggle in this country are due to stupidity or laziness, and not bad luck, circumstances or environment. You also believe that the majority of cases wherein people accept government aid are those 'piggybacking' off those rare, legitimate cases of hard luck. You probably have this vision in your head of herds of poor people, lacking motivation or values or discipline, suckling at the teat of the bloated state. Let me point out to you that federal aid programs, be they health care, food stamps, or welfare, take up a very small fraction of state and national budgets. They pale in comparison to the appropriations each state gets for pork barrel spending, and seem miniscule compared to the bailouts we pay to mismanaged corporations, the contracts we give to political allies, subsidies for industries that cannot keep themselves afloat, etc.

Your ethos of hard work and self reliance is a popular myth. In fact many of the richest corporations get that way with government support, on taxpayer dollars, while politicians preach about shrinking the bloated social welfare system, that supposedly encourages people not to work and does more harm than good.

I take this debate very personally, as I work in a field that provides a valuable service to society, yet am constantly told that there isn't any more money to pay for our work. I even hear these 'do it yourself' capitalists claim that many social service or education professionals are OVERPAID for the work they do, which is laughable.

If you really think American business is built on self-reliance and hard work, and that money is a true measure of success in this country, I can only hope for your sake that you die before the money runs out or you have a chance to realize otherwise.

NT