AKo in SB hits nothing

kurosh · #1 03-27-2005, 10:12 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

CO ($1274.7)
Button ($159.45)
Hero ($423.4)
BB ($216.1)
UTG ($340.4)
MP ($400)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $2. MP posts a blind of $4.
1 fold, MP (poster) checks, CO calls $4, Button raises to $8, Hero (poster) raises to $23, 1 fold, MP folds, CO calls $21, Button calls $17.

Flop: ($83) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $50, CO folds, Button folds.

Final Pot: $133

Not many reads, just sat down. Button limps a lot. Is the flop bet too weak?

bigt439 · #2 03-27-2005, 12:43 PM

Is there a particular reason that you repopped preflop? You're undoubtedly going to be out of postion for the hand and with a raise that small, can figure to get heads up in a best case scenario with a good chance for a 3way pot. While this is a definitely a good hand, it is a poor situation so I would not be jamming the pot. Take a cheap flop and hope that you get paid off by a worse a or k when you hit. But be very careful of action flops as these guys likely have small to mid pp's (they love to limp and minraise). As for how the action developed on the flop, I don't love that either. You are out of position betting into two players. If it was heads up this would be a good line, but kq or aq are very possible hands, and a second pair pp may call to see what you do on the turn. It's going to be tough for you to fire another bullet on the turn, so unless you really wanna put alot of money in on a bluff, anyone who calls the flop will take the hand away from you when you check the turn or river. Two many hands can flat call you including hearts, any q, a set, or pp.

amoeba · #3 03-27-2005, 01:12 PM

you made them fold their AK this time. but most of the time you are losing money here betting on that flop.

the only hands that they call a reraise preflop and fold the flop is AK, JJ. most stubborn party players call you with AQ here.

well the good news is the repop preflop allowed you to bluff this pot on the flop.

the bad news is the times that they don't have AK, you are dropping a lot of money on that flop by inflating the pot size with the preflop reraise.

kurosh · #4 03-27-2005, 01:48 PM

I'm coming back to NL after a long period of playing limit. AK isn't that good in NL? Do you only reraise with AA-JJ then?

amoeba · #5 03-27-2005, 02:08 PM

many of us reraise with only AA, KK.

my range is AA, KK, QQ, AK but AK and QQ are situational. sometimes I smoothcall with these.

mishafp · #6 03-27-2005, 02:21 PM

I know this is gonna sound silly to say- but its important, i think. What you do and do not re-raise with is very player specific. if I am going up against a weak player, and I am confident that i have a better hand than him (say he raises more with BIG hands than with middling hands, and he has raised so that i put in on a middling hand), I will re-raise JJ, QQ, AK, KK, or AA, even if I am out of position (maybe even TT). I believe that going heads up against an inferior player, with the better hand, I will be EV+ even if I am out of position, so why not get more money into the pot?

mishafp · #7 03-27-2005, 02:23 PM

Also, i do like your pre-flop re-raise, because many people raise from the button with middling hands, and there is a good chance you can take the pot down right there (and if he calls, you are still likely a coin-flip- although, obviously, out of position).

Your flop bet is just the right size, but its ONLY the right bet if you think your opponents are pretty tight and will fold something like TT, JJ or even AQ with that flop.

amoeba · #8 03-27-2005, 02:29 PM

what do you mean by middling hands?

mishafp · #9 03-27-2005, 03:20 PM

TT-77, AJ, KQ- some guys raise like 3 times the BB with these hands, and 6 times with QQ-AA

suspicious_mind · #10 03-27-2005, 03:20 PM

I don't necceseraly think that reraising preflop is bad, cutoff has shown weakness by just limping after the poster, buttons min raise doesn't look like a very strong hand either,I think he has something like AQ-AJ, ATs, KQ, KJs, AK and maybe a medium pp so AK is pretty likely to be the best hand. It's true you will be in bad position the rest of the hand but I'm not sure giving everyone a cheap flop is that much better, if you flop top pair you could easily get into trouble against 2 pair or a set and it will be hard to get away from since you didn't define your hand preflop.

If you reraise you give yourself the chance to win 20$ right now without having to see a flop or you could find yourself HU with the button. It will be hard for him to play well against you even in position since he is so shortstacked.

Even when you get 2 callers you will hit the flop 1/3 of the time and when you do your hand will probably be good. When you miss you will often be in a good position to bluff after showing strength preflop.

In the actual hand I'm not sure if betting or checking the flop is right, it's kind of hard to tell without a read on the players.

If you bet your opponents will have to fold about 40-50% of the time for you to show a profit, not counting that you might win even if you are called.

If you check it will be difficult for your opponents to bluff since you could easily be checking with AA-QQ and they will have to worry about the other player as well.
So it might get checked through on the flop if your opponents are weak and you might be able to pick the pot up with a bet on the turn with less risk of getting called than on the flop or it might get checked down and you might win at showdown.

Im leaning towards betting around 50-70$ depending a bit on my opponents. It's a pretty uncoordinated flop except for the flush draw and 2 unlikely straight draws, if your opponent don't have a Q they will have a very difficult call after you showing strength preflop and then betting into 2 opponents. If I'm called my opponents style will determine how I play the turn but I will most likely check-fold. If I'm raised by the cutoff I'm folding but if I'm raised by the button I'm not sure if you can fold since you would be getting about the right odds to catch a A or K by the river, although if you count the possibility of being dominated by KQ or AQ it's probably a fold.