Preflop

[Victor]

hi sthief

i am glad ur back. capping with 88 is bad kinda bad. its good intially and in a preflop equity contest.

but with 3 players stategery and pot manip is improtant.

i think the best line is to call pfand raise flop on an innocous board (any board wo a or k)

[ProfLupin]

[ QUOTE ]

its all about the pps.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you elaborate why you like the low pairs in this situation? Best case scenario is you're up against 3 over cards against you, and much more likely 4. Worst case, you're up against a higher pocket and two overs. The button isn't likely to fold in normal games even if you cap, so you're going to see the flop 3 handed, also not good news for these low pairs.

I agree, you will get mucho action if you hit your set, but I'm inclined to fold the low pairs here.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

its all about the pps.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you elaborate why you like the low pairs in this situation? Best case scenario is you're up against 3 over cards against you, and much more likely 4. Worst case, you're up against a higher pocket and two overs. The button isn't likely to fold in normal games even if you cap, so you're going to see the flop 3 handed, also not good news for these low pairs.

I agree, you will get mucho action if you hit your set, but I'm inclined to fold the low pairs here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am also curious about this, while these are the only hands I'd play out of the group (with the exception of maybe A8s), You are getting 3.5-1 immediate odds, Basically you have to hit your set to win, im hung over and no good at this anyway, but given calling 2 cold, youve got alot of bets to make up post flop...and unless the Button hits, you get zero action from him, because his steal attempt got 3 bet and called and unless he was stealing with a real hand (not likely hand probabilty wise) even if he hits something he prolly just calls down.

ugh....im gunna puke and shower

[MrBig30]

I would also fold all these. And I am curious too about how some good players figure the PP´s to be bad folds. Although some say the opposite so I suspect it might be a marginal decision. Maybe it depends on the buttons steal-raising standards and the SB´s LAG-yness.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
i really think its funny that ppl are debating this. a10 is a terrible call (or cap). qjs is better but still bad.

its all about the pps.

[/ QUOTE ]


how is QJs better than ATo 3-handed? QJs is dominated like 80% of the time.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
hi sthief

i am glad ur back. capping with 88 is bad kinda bad. its good intially and in a preflop equity contest.

but with 3 players stategery and pot manip is improtant.

i think the best line is to call pfand raise flop on an innocous board (any board wo a or k)

[/ QUOTE ]


well, using the EM logic, 99 is an easy cap IMO and 77 is an easy call, so capping 88 can't be "bad." also, there's not much difference between capping or calling in this spot. it's nice to see whether button caps, but a 30/15 might occasionally fold a hand like JTo or QJo that has 2 clean overs. also, if you have a ncie equity edge, it would be tough for you to lose out on so much postflop by capping that it now becomes a bad move. it may not be best, but it's not bad. it's a hell of a lot better than folding

[sthief09]

Against a range of:
Button: 29.6785 % { AA-44, AKs-A2s, KQs-K7s, QJs-Q8s, JTs-J8s, T9s-T8s, 98s-97s, 87s, 76s, 65s, AKo-A2o, KQo-K8o, QJo-Q9o, JTo, T9o }
SB: 38.5317 % { AA-44, AKs-A5s, KQs-KTs, QJs, AKo-A7o, KQo-KTo }

suggestions for the above?

1. QJs- 32%
2. ATo- 32.4%
3. A8s- 30.1%
4. 66- 33.5%
5. 22- 28%
6. KJo- 29.2%
7. KTs- 30.8%
8. 88- 37.7% (too good to not cap IMO)

obviously this isn't everything. important factors are being able to get to the river via having outs. if you whiff with KJo, it might be hard to continue. with KTs, backdoor flush outs can let you peel, whereas you'd have to fold the unsuited version. making the nuts is important. again the suited hands, and now pocket pairs are useful for this. being confident in your hand is important. flopping a Q with QJs is tough to play, but making a flush with QJs will let you play confidently. This is why all pairs are playable. they have potential to flop a huge hand. I didn't realize how good QJs was in this situation.

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

I agree, you will get mucho action if you hit your set


[/ QUOTE ]

That sounds good.

[ QUOTE ]

but I'm inclined to fold the low pairs here.


[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm. That doesn't sound so good.

If you're confident of a lot of action if you hit your set, why do you want to fold?


Guy.

[TStoneMBD]

i agree strongly with capping 88.

heres why;

you arent losing equity preflop as shown by your studies.
your hand plays better in a capped pot. you have taken the role of the aggressor. postflop, if you fire and are shown strength, its easier for you to get away from the hand then if you had just coldcalled. people expect you to make it to the showdown after showing so much strength preflop, so they are more likely to slowdown.

if anybody is going to argue that you are cutting down on your implied odds for hitting a set, you are wrong. dont get me started on this again please.

[Danenania]

I would cap 88 too but I get where the other guys are coming from. It's nice to be able to isolate the lag SB on any Aceless flop. But the thing is I think there's a good chance that SB will lead any flop even if I cap, so often I will be able to both push my equity and still get the relative position advantage of having SB lead out.

Sthief, I think your range of hands for SB in particular is too narrow. I'd say he is capable of 3-betting most of the hands that button would open with minus some of the lesser suited connectors and gappers. Also I think they could both have 22 or 33.