Hand No. 2 and No. 7 from Jim's most recent article

[skp]

What's the consensus on these hands taken from Jim's article:

Hand No. 2 ($20-$40 game): You are in the big blind and get a free play with the 9s6h after two early-position players, a middle-position player, and the small blind limp in. There is $100 in the pot and five players. The flop is 10c7c3d. It is checked to the first early-position player, who bets. The next player folds, the middle-position player calls, and the small blind folds. What should you do?

Hand No. 7 ($30-$60 game): You are in the big blind with the 9s7s. Five players limp in, as does the small blind. You take a free play. The flop arrives with the Qh9h7h. The small blind checks, you bet, the next player raises, and two players call, with the rest folding. What should you do?

[astroglide]

2: fold

7: call and checkraise the turn (check/fold if a heart or a queen fall)

[Homer]

Hand 2 - Fold. 7:1 isn't enough to go for the gutshot (especially with the flush draw out there as well).

Hand 7 - Call and check on the turn, folding if you don't fill and there is heavy action or a heart comes.

-- Homer

[WannaPlayBetter]

#2

I think it's a fold. I think raising is wasting money here. You close the action, so one might argue a call for the gutshot is correct. But 8c might not be good - flush. And someome might have J9 in which case you're paying someone off. I would fold and wait for a better opportunity.

#7

I think this is close between call and fold. My question is what is everyone limping with? Maybe 99, 77, KQs, KJs, KTs, Q9s. Singleton hearts may be out there. Re-raising is not likely to knock anyone out as it's only 1 bet to each. I could fold or call.

wpb

[J.A.Sucker]

Consensus, the man says... everyone's a comedian [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Hand #2: I think that this is a call. It's unlikely that MP has a flush draw, since he just called. These days, everyone seems to raise flush draws when last to act, so I think you're drawing very live. You close the action and you have 7:1 immediate odds.

Hand #7: The lone A of h ain't gonna fold on this hand no matter what, but there are a lot of bad cards on this hand. I'd wait till the turn, then see how the hand develops. Raising isn't bad if you think that the guy on your left will reraise it again with a hand like AQ, but few players will do this, and it wasn't raised preflop, so AQ ain't as likely.

These are just my opinions, but I'm Just Another Sucker.

[skp]

I'll comment on the second hand first.

Jim suggests three betting in order to "make the flush draws pay".

I would be quite sceptical that I in fact hold the best hand at this point. You have got a raiser and two coldcallers. While it's reasonable to assume that the raiser has a top pair of Queens and one of the coldcallers may be on an Ace high flush draw, that still leaves open the question "what does the second coldcaller have?". Surely, the chances of a set or a made flush being out there are quite high given the betting sequence.

Further, even if you are ahead, there are two cards to come and you could easily be overtaken.

I would just call on the flop and then check the turn and see how things develop. If there is a bet and a raise, I would muck (notice that results in investing 3 fewer small bets as compared to 3 betting the flop, betting the turn and then getting popped by someone). If there is a bet from my left and two more calls, then calling would be in order. If there is a bet from the button, then I have got a tough choice between calling and raising. But I would lean towards calling again rather than raising (I'll address this in my reply to Astroglide's post above).

Of course, if the turn is a Queen, I would fold.

If you do decide to 3 bet the flop, it should not be driven by the idea that "you must make the flush draws pay". That's just a byproduct of the play. But the biggest advantage of 3 betting the flop is to knock out the guy with just a Queen in his hand. Now, on the flop, the guy most likely to have a Queen is the raiser. If he sticks around with say, QsJs, he will have 5 outs on the turn and 8 outs on the river. If you knock him out and go up against the heart draws only, you have much fewer trouble cards to worry about on the river.

As for the first hand with the 96, I would call. You only have two opponents and the betting has been closed. You are getting current odds of 7:1 and you also have a backdoor straight draw in addition to the more obvious gutshot. Yes, the 8c could get you in trouble but the emphasis should be on "could". The 8c out is tainted...it's not an automatic trouble card.

[Penguin]

Hand 2: I would fold. Only getting 7:1 on a gutshot, out of position,no overcards, with possible flush. Little upside.

Hand 7: This one is more problematic. I would call the raise. There are just too many outs there for the rest of the players, assuming the raise came from a Q, and the two cold callers are on hearts or straight. Even if all the potential outs aren't real - its still going to be difficult to play bottom two if say a K comes on the turn.

So I would call and see what develops on the turn. If its a dud, I bet, else I check and see how much strength is out there.

[Kevin J]

Hand #2- I'd fold.

Hand #7- I'd call and bet any blank on the turn.. And check a non-blank.

I guess I'm gonna have to go to Card Player's website and read the article (For some reason the poker rooms in my area are slow to get current issues of Card Player).

[Kevin J]

Interesting take on both hands. I agree checking the turn (in hand #7) is probaby prudent. I guess it depends some on the quality of the two cold callers.

I wouln't have thought to call in hand #2. It's not just the clubs, but you could get crushed by J9s. Or be good on the turn, only to get counterfeited on the river (either by a club or better straight). I know this sounds like scared poker, but I really try to stay away from situations like this. This is MUCH different than the A4s hand in an earlier post IMO-

[FishyWhale]

2) Fold because you might only have 3 and not 4 outs.

7) Call (I´m closing the action)