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#31
03-23-2005, 08:47 PM
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Re: Doyle\'s take on calling small edges vs folding
What tournament did he fold this in?
I think in makes a big difference in folding here. Lets say it was in a fast-structure online tournament with a small starting stack, you might call here. Now, if its in a big buy in tournament with lots of starting chips and a very slow structure (bellagio had a tournament with 50,000 starting chips, and the first level was like 25-50 i think, not sure) you would be more inclined to fold. Thats why some books don't necessary relate to online tournaments. 
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#32
03-23-2005, 10:02 PM
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Re: Doyle\'s take on calling small edges vs folding
I think we all agree that in a fast-structure online tournament with a small starting stack, you might call here.
But, the problem is that some posters believe that you should call any time you have an edge, no matter how small, and in ANY tournament, and some others like myself believe this is not necessary true.
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#33
03-23-2005, 10:26 PM
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Re: Doyle\'s take on calling small edges vs folding
[ QUOTE ] To be honest, I find pretty annoying, that people with some months of internet experience already have definite answers to these questions, and more than that, they even criticize to those of us still looking for them. [/ QUOTE ] First, no one is criticizing you. We are challenging your thinking. Big difference. Second, most of those posting have read books/website/2+2 extensively and our thoughts reflect months of internet experience AND Sklansky’s comments on his years of experience AND Raymers comments on his years of experience, etc. Third, Doyle is saying that one particular example with incomplete information is a close decision. That is very different from Doyle saying the principle of pushing smaller edges is incorrect. Next, looking for the answer to questions is slightly different than demanding proof before you’ll believe the answer. Poker is really Decision Making under Incomplete Information. So saying you won’t believe any statements from top notch players like Phillips/Raymer until shown proof flies in the face of their results. Weighted probabilities indicate believing them until proven wrong is a better strategy. Lastly, we have definite answers because we’ve thought a lot about this, and laying out a point of view with rationale is the best way to improve. There is no fuzziness or after the fact revision to get your answer closer to someone elses. I’ve been wrong numerous times on these boards, but I’m wrong less frequently than I used to be. So don’t take it personally.
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#34
03-23-2005, 11:03 PM
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Re: Doyle\'s take on calling small edges vs folding
[ QUOTE ]
But, the problem is that some posters believe that you should call any time you have an edge, no matter how small [/ QUOTE ] Again, I'll say calling with a small edge is not the same as pushing a small edge. And there is also the matter of how confident you are in your read of your edge. But by and large, I agree that it is often wiser to look for bigger edge than to overplay a small one.
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#35
03-23-2005, 11:13 PM
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Re: Doyle\'s take on calling small edges vs folding
Pushing a small edge is the same as calling off a small edge. The difference is that when you push, your edge usually isn't that small because there's probably at least a 10% chance they fold. If you re-raise someone all in with pocket 7s and you know they have AQ, you're not pushing a 55% edge. Your edge is probably significantly more than 55%. If you knew for sure they'd call, then it's no different than calling the chips off.
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#37
03-23-2005, 11:19 PM
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Re: Doyle\'s take on calling small edges vs folding
[ QUOTE ]
Pushing a small edge is the same as calling off a small edge. The difference is that when you push, your edge usually isn't that small because there's probably at least a 10% chance they fold. If you re-raise someone all in with pocket 7s and you know they have AQ, you're not pushing a 55% edge. Your edge is probably significantly more than 55%. If you knew for sure they'd call, then it's no different than calling the chips off. [/ QUOTE ] Well said sir, well said.
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#38
03-24-2005, 03:33 AM
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Re: Doyle\'s take on calling small edges vs folding
[ QUOTE ]
Pushing a small edge is the same as calling off a small edge. The difference is that when you push, your edge usually isn't that small because there's probably at least a 10% chance they fold. If you re-raise someone all in with pocket 7s and you know they have AQ, you're not pushing a 55% edge. Your edge is probably significantly more than 55%. If you knew for sure they'd call, then it's no different than calling the chips off. [/ QUOTE ] damn good point, never thought of it that way
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#39
03-24-2005, 05:59 AM
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Re: Doyle\'s take on calling small edges vs folding
[ QUOTE ]
Greg, You do not post enough in the MTT forum, you are missed. Omaha games that juicy eh? Regards, Woodguy [/ QUOTE ] Thanks D! I still like the MTTs, but I have a family so getting 2-4 hours to disappear is tough. They are also tough emotionally -- you invest 3 hours and then have some fish knock you out just outside the real money, or you make a bonehead move and poof. And of course, you have to play against people like Woodguy, MLG, Che, Soss,....... You oughta give O8 a try, my friend, more fish than in holdem [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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