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#21
03-22-2005, 06:13 PM
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Re: Math question about AA.
If 4 players put 75% of their stack in and you re-raise - yes you want all of them to fold. Let's be realistic here, how often does that really happen?
In your example if the small stack had about 300 total you would like him to fold, he'd be calling 100 more in a pot of 1050. Generally vs. one or two opponents you shouldn't want to take it down PF. Ok maybe if you and villian each have 1,000,000 chips and the 2 others at the table have 100 chips and the blinds are 5000/10,000 then you'd like to just take it down. Or if villian folds BB to your raise leaving himself with 13 chips and the SB is gonna cost him 100. Again, these are highly unlikely circumstances. 
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#22
03-22-2005, 06:59 PM
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Re: Math question about AA.
I don't think this is one of those situations where you want to take it down right away. I think the reraise to 1000 wasn't bad, but a little steep. I would try to create a juicy side pot while keeping the big stack in.
I like a raise to 800. This would put the small stack all-in and create a nice 250 side pot. This gives big stack > 4:1 to call and see a flop, plus a chance at the side pot. If biggie calls and small stack calls, and you lose to small stack, you could still come out up almost a grand by by beating biggie. Late day at work, so I'm not sure if that made any sense. Any flames?
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#23
03-22-2005, 07:32 PM
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Re: Math question about AA.
Bradley - with 2,6k posts u sure come off unclear to a stranger. Now this maybe very obvious to you - and I might be totally lost in my own question and reasoning but it sure seems that u didn't really get it.....
Now for all u others - I agree with each and every move u make (almost) - all pertinent to its time and place in a tourney. But still no math guy has come forward to give a credible solution to the problem. It seems so easy - but I dont have the math knowledge to perform the necessary calculations. Or if math is not necessary - pls explain your actions and the reasoning behind....
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#25
03-22-2005, 07:36 PM
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Re: Math question about AA.
I think he's saying that the only situations where you would want to just take the pot down right there without anyone else putting any money in are situations that would never happen.
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#27
03-22-2005, 08:00 PM
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Re: Math question about AA.
nice advice - I'll have to go along with your thinking of all the posts posted - but when exactly is this point.. (the point of when u want to take it down by an overbet instead of getting a "crying call") math wise?
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#28
03-22-2005, 08:20 PM
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Re: Math question about AA.
I don't think there is ONE mathematical answer, or anyway it is really complicated. It depends on how many opponants and stack sizes.
A simple example that has only 1 opponant and no implied odds to worry about SB has x chips you BB have x chips (might as well have the same for this) folded to SB who raises to y chips you push to x chips If he calls, you expect to have about 1.6x. If he folds you have x + y. 1.6x = x + y y = .6x So if he already has 60 percent of his chips in the pot it is EV neutral for him to call your raise. If he had more, it would be +EV. This is not the same as $EV which would complicate things more and make you a little more inclined to be happy when he folded. I don't have time to work any math out (this was just an approximation) but I'm pretty sure adding opponants would mean they would need to have invested a much smaller portion of their stacks for you to want them to fold to a reraise.
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#29
03-23-2005, 01:24 AM
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almost never do you want them to fold
You will win roughly 80% of the time when against one opponent (and you both go all the way to the river). Something like 65% against two opponents. This depends somewhat on the hands you are likely to be called by.
[ QUOTE ] So there has got to be a point where there is enough chips in the pot that u would be happy to take it down without a flop. [/ QUOTE ] If your opponent is getting better than 4 to 1 (80%) to call your re-raise, you want him to fold. Of course this will almost never happen, as BradleyT has said. This gets somewhat complicated by the real value of tournament chips (ICM stuff), but it's pretty safe to say you always want them to call.
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#30
03-23-2005, 01:30 AM
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Re: almost never do you want them to fold
You *are* alive!!!
Woohoo! Yugoslav But is Aleo?? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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