100-200 against stoxtrader

[bugstud]

How often does stox CC in the SB with AK here though?

[mike l.]

three bet the river. the sb has a K. he's not letting a Q get checked through twice. he's smart enough to do it, but he puts you on a Q or a K or a river payoff hand or river raising hand. so he would river bet a Q and hope you raise him so he could 3 bet. he would checkraise a K.

[Steve Giufre]

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How often does stox CC in the SB with AK here though?

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Very good point, he would probably never CC with AK there. Sorry, like I said my head is way up my butt right now.

[mike l.]

"Great post Josh. I deeply considered folding at the time."

ok well then that guy just owns you. all he did was cold call (out of the sb no less!) and then check 3 times only to raise once against what could easily be A high or some scared small pair by you (given how you played it). you are terrified of this guy. you give up too much EV being in the same game as him, some of the EV you get from the terrible player in the game. yuck.

[mike l.]

i like this line. i think this is a good place to just resolve to either winning 3 bets or whatever from him or getting c/r on the turn and losing 3 bets and just living with it. youre against a tough player (im assuming that's what all the fuss is about) and you have a very strong hand on a scary flop.

go ahead and play the hand out and limit yourself to only losing 3 bbs if that's what it comes to. in bigger games against tougher players with a strong hand that's an acceptable route sometimes.

[James282]

[ QUOTE ]
"Great post Josh. I deeply considered folding at the time."

ok well then that guy just owns you. all he did was cold call (out of the sb no less!) and then check 3 times only to raise once against what could easily be A high or some scared small pair by you (given how you played it). you are terrified of this guy. you give up too much EV being in the same game as him, some of the EV you get from the terrible player in the game. yuck.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is one of your worst posts ever. Let's see if Stox comes forward and says that this line will be a bluff most of the time. Gimme a break dude. I'll invite him to also come forward and cite any times where he has successfully bluffed me out of a pot like this vs. how many times I've called him down.

He did not "just cold call." He cold called preflop, which puts him on a specific range(not like you, cold calling 97s). This means suited paint or a pair. He calls the most ragged flop in history. He does not have a K. That is absolutely awful analysis. he is not peeling here with KJ or KT or whatever K hand you want to give him. He is not a regular at the commerce, calling simply to set up a bluff. Frankly, as I paid off I knew I was beat, but called on the exceptionally off chance that he was bluffing. Plus, I wanted to see how bad he owned me.

"He's not letting the Q get checked through twice."

Of course not, but once that K falls he's got me on an exact hand. If it's any card besides the K he just bets out the river and we can get this whole thing over with. But instead, he sees it as the perfect value check-raise card, and I do a "just in case payoff."

Sorry mike, you are usually spot on with these sorts of things, but your analysis is pretty bad. "3 bet the river." Wow, I think that is around a full BB mistake against this guy.
-James

[bicyclekick]

James I think you should be betting that turn.

Also, I think you speak too much of making laydowns and nobody paying off anyone. I think you are a little misguided here as I think as we all get better and better more and more of the play is posturing and payoffs need to be made, as uncomfortable as they may be. You have to call down a lot more esp HU...that's what I took away from my conversation with mason over supper.

You've said it yourself, you raise with cheese on the river often enough, why can't you do it when you actually have a damn good hand too?

You're giving stox way too much folding credit. IMO.

I also like stox river c/r. Very strong play. I would call and be pissed I missed the turn bet that should have been made. But as you and another poster said, you're going to be shown a Q almost every time...until he starts noticing your folds and then almost never.

[fearme]

although im not saying 3bettting is always best, ic many benefits with the 3bet, but i think u also have to factor in a player's playing style, james seems like a more conservative player so just calling the raise and river bet is fine( if u bet the turn and get popped),

but i don't like the turn check as well

[fearme]

if so then u might be right about not going more than 2 bets, otherwise i could see this hand going cap on flop easily, or more bets on the turn,

[1800GAMBLER]

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I'm talking about this hand in particular

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