What can you do?

scotty34 · #1 03-22-2005, 03:34 AM

I've had situations like this pop up several times in recent memory, and it is actually starting to bug me a bit (read hand results). My guess is there is nothing you can really do about it, and be happy it didn't cost you more money. I am seeing it happening all the time now though - players limping with hands such as AA KK or AK. Would this be somewhat of a corrolary to a bad beat post - I should be thankful even though I lost because this is making (saving) me money in the long run?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, Hero raises, MP1 (poster) calls, 1 fold, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, CO calls, BB calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 folds, CO folds, BB calls.

River: (8.25 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 8.25 BB

Results in white below: 
BB has Ad Ks (one pair, aces).
Hero has Ah Td (one pair, aces).
Outcome: BB wins 8.25 BB.

zeropotential · #2 03-22-2005, 04:47 AM

pf: i don't raise ATo here... AJo is as low as I go; some people will make an argument for raising ATo..... blah blah blah

since you did raise it...

flop: bet
turn: bet
river: bet

and don't put results in your post

Niediam · #3 03-22-2005, 05:24 AM

Fold preflop. Bet the river for value.

scotty34 · #4 03-22-2005, 06:31 AM

I wasn't so much posting this hand to get an analysis of my play. I was more looking to get into the discussion of people limping in with big hands, and how it affects you. I know for a fact that it is -EV to limp in with hands such as these yourself. However, do you think it is necessarily +EV for you when another player limps with AA, KK etc. It seems to have happened a lot lately when I see the flop for one bet, make a reasonable hand, and get called down or raised on the river, only to be beaten by AA/KK. The selection bias is obviously in effect here, because I usually don't see all the times when they limp and lose.

Basically, what I'm asking, is can this be compared to a fish cold calling your raise with 86o and rivering a straight to beat you. It sucks when it happens, but you just gotta think for everytime I lose a few bets to that hand I will win around 4x the amount other times.

godduo · #5 03-22-2005, 06:45 AM

It can be irritating. I have this happen a few times a night when I go to the casino. It can be difficult to spot the overpair against your top pair when they just call the whole way, but I look at it as missed bets on their part. It also helps when they give me free cards and I hit my draw to suck out on their aces. For that reason alone I enjoy them passively playing their big pairs.

Besides, if they're poor enough to play Aces like that you probably make your money back and then some on all of their other mistakes. It's frustrating sometimes when their mistakes work out for them but in the long run their mistakes are what will make you money. Just keep that in mind, smile and say "Nice hand".

Aaron W. · #6 03-22-2005, 09:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't so much posting this hand to get an analysis of my play. I was more looking to get into the discussion of people limping in with big hands, and how it affects you. I know for a fact that it is -EV to limp in with hands such as these yourself. However, do you think it is necessarily +EV for you when another player limps with AA, KK etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's hardly ever +EV to be in a pot when AA/KK is out there. But it's also -EV (and -santity) to be worrying about those 12 hands (out of 1326 possible starting hands).

[ QUOTE ]
It seems to have happened a lot lately when I see the flop for one bet, make a reasonable hand, and get called down or raised on the river, only to be beaten by AA/KK. The selection bias is obviously in effect here, because I usually don't see all the times when they limp and lose.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right about the selective memory. The way to get over it is to learn to shrug them off. Sometimes you get beat by lesser hands that get lucky and sometimes you get beat by better hands that trick you. It's poker. Get over it.