overaggressive or suberb played?

[King_J]

2-4 fixed 5handed game online.
Cutoff posts dead (2+1). UTG limp, Cutoff check, button limped in as well. Sb called and I checked in BB with 109o.

SB is very aggressive but not a maniac. The poster is a calling station (fish).

Flop: K97 r
Sb bets out and I raise. UTG folds. Fishy cutoff calls. Button folds and sb reriases. I call and so does Cutoff.

Turn: 3

Sb bets out, I raise and once again cutoff calls and this time no reraise from SB. Phew.

River: 2
Making the board: K97 3 2

Sb check, I check and cutoff checks...
Overaggressive or great played?

[Ikke]

To make this kind of play I really want to get a good "feel" of SB. You're classification of "very aggressive but not a maniac" is still quite general. I know great players who are extremely aggressive and I know bad/mediocre player who are very aggressive (but most of the times at the wrong moments). Did you find him tough to play against? Did you have a good read on him?

But lets assume that he's reasonable and very aggressive. There are some things to consider:
-There are 5 people and 5 SB in the pot. Or: chances that he's totally bluffing (no pair no draw) are not too big IMO.
-A 9 or 7 is way more benefited by taking the pot on the flop than a K, because of the outs against that hand. In my experience a 9 or 7 is more likely to bet out than a K.
-He might be semi-bluffing with T8, QJ, QT etc hoping to either get the pot on the flop or turn, or create a big pot by people calling one SB. But a lot of players wouldnt do that here with gutshots, therefore I think this chance is still lower than option 2.

After his reraise I think you can dismiss the 7. IMO his most likely holdings are a K, T8 or a 9 (more likely with a good kicker). In short: the best play would be far more clear when your held a nine with a better kicker. You also have to worry about fishy cut-off calling, although he probably could have a fairly wide range of hands.

Now on the turn it's important to consider the likelyhood of being good, your likely number of outs, and the likelyhood of cut-off or SB folding a better hand than yours.

There are 8BB in the pot, but IMO you have to decide on which read of SB you go. Because: if you put him on a K you may very well have 5 outs, whereas if you put him on a nine you might have only 3outs. Also, what will be the likelyhood that he will reraise with a hand that you have outs against? (Because if you have to call a turn 3-bet with this lousy hand, I don't like raising the turn).

So lots of things to consider. A big favour of raising is that you may very well get a showdown for the same amount as if you called down; he might fold a better nine, and you put maximum pressure on cut-off to fold.

So to come to a conclusion if you factored in all these things I think that with this big a pot (8BB) you want to continue (because of your outs combined with the probability of being good) and the best way to do that is with a raise. Isnt it nice to have position on the bettor? ;-)

But if you strongly believe that he has a better nine and will not fold that (which I fear for), then fold. I think the choice between folding and raising is close. Calling is not an option.

Regards

[Pot-A]

Overaggressive. Most full games don't see the flop with five people. What do you think SB has? He is going to be out of position on the turn, and he puts in three on the flop. When you raise the turn he has to put you on at least two pair. If he calls your raise you're probably in trouble.

I suppose he could be on a semi-bluff, but there's too many bets in the pot for you to fold if you have anything. So if that's the case it's a pretty clumsy bluff.

[Jason Pohl]

Overaggressive. SB has shown a lot of strength by 3-betting and betting turn. This is not a normal play for a draw, especially w/ 2 callers and no free card potential.

The cold caller is either on a strong draw or a high pair (I just don't know many players who cold call on the flop w/ bottom pair.) Either way, the raise on the turn seems overaggressive unless this 'calling station' will fold on the turn to 2 bets when he wouldn't on the flop. In other words, I can see little reason to add more money to the pot with 2nd pair, mediocre kicker and two opponents. Only one is likely to have a draw. The other takes down the pot most of the time....the Small Blind wins if my read is correct w/ the limited info.

P.S. The turn and river were nearly perfect for your hand. Only a nine could have been better. Where would you be if the river comes Ace, Jack, or even a Seven? Not to mention that a Ten, Six, or Five put a straight out there, along with an Eight or Queen. That's a lot of scary cards, so again, the raise only makes sense IF the fishy cutoff will fold.

P.S.S. I'm not saying your hand will never take down the pot here. It will win some percentage of the time. But it will not win often enough to justify pumping the pot the whole way.

--Jason

[Ikke]

So what would be your course of action? Fold or call?

If you opt to call: what would you do if you dont improve and SB bets the river? Does it matter if cut-off would fold on the turn?

Also maybe a nice question, what would you do (if you called the turn) if cut-off folded the turn and SB checks to you on a blank on the river?

Regards

[King_J]

My hand was shown first (since I was the last one to raise) Ladbrokes...

I showed my hand and Cutoff mucked but Sb took it with K10o and I realized I was almost drawing dead. It was probably overplayed as you guys said... Ty for taking your time.

[tewall]

"In other words, I can see little reason to add more money to the pot with 2nd pair, mediocre kicker and two opponents."

This sounds like the choice would be fold.