Way in front or way behind

maddo · #1 03-19-2005, 06:25 AM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (9 handed) converter

SB (t3525)
BB (t10599)
UTG (t11394)
UTG+1 (t2261)
MP1 (t9454)
MP2 (t15723)
MP3 (t3512)
CO (t5548)
Hero (t9935)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls t400, MP3 calls t400, 1 fold, Hero raises to t1600, 2 folds, MP2 calls t1200, MP3 folds.

Flop: (t3800) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)

MP2 checks
Hero ?????

I guess this is one of those situations where you're said to be "Either way in front, or way behind"? It seems the advice here is to check behind? If MP2 then bets the turn do you just call? If MP2 checks the river do you value bet?

tiger7210 · #2 03-19-2005, 09:56 AM

No way do you check behind here. You just flopped TPGK. You have to bet out here 1/2 to 2/3 the pot is fine on a board that has no draws on it. The way you play this hand out depends on your read here of the villain. At this point if you believe he's a fairly loose fish and calls anything then bet out 1/3 to 1/2 the pot on the turn if he calls your bet on the flop. You can always consider checking behind on the river dpending on what comes off on the turn and river.

I would only check behind here on the flop if you were using it to deceive him if you know your opponent is aggressive and may view your check as weakness and bet the hand strong on the turn and river figuring you don't have the Ace.

The way it looks like you played it, he probably tried to either buy the pot on the turn when you checked behind on the flop, or he has a weak Ace, or a pair. Yes i would definitely bet the river if he bet the turn then checked the river. The reason you should have bet the flop is to get that type of information as well as to make a weak Ace pay to draw to his 3 outs

SossMan · #3 03-19-2005, 10:42 AM

I would probably bet 1/2 the pot here and check behind on the turn if a non-drawish card came off.

maddo · #4 03-19-2005, 03:42 PM

Ok. Firstly, I haven't said exactly how I played out the hand. I was just asking some theoretical questions, based on possible scenarios.

Now, MP2 had just joined the table so surely without knowing how he plays I have to generalise. He limps after another MP limper and then calls another 1200 into a 2600 pot to play heads up out of position. Can't you put him on some type of hand here?

(1) Medium Ace (maybe small suited)
(2) Small/Medium pocket pair
(3) Big connecting cards (maybe suited)

Am I way off here?

But to have a draw here (to a straight) he would need small/medium connectors, which is less likely, unless he's taking a chance to catch a flop and bust me.

I'm not defending checking behind here, I've just read posts where people recommend it when giving a free card doesn't seem to be dangerous. I'm a bit confused!

So can you only check when there is definitely no flush/straight draws whatsoever?

Thinking about this, if one card is an Ace, and the other 2 are different then I can't see any combination where there isn't a possible straight draw. Am I correct here?

So, a question for anyone who advocates checking a pair of Aces - what board do you do it on?

Andy.

Msogard · #5 03-19-2005, 03:59 PM

I see no reason to believe you're way behind here. Bet 1/2 the pot but be cautious if he cold calls your bet on a board like this.