AK hand: tough turn

gopnik · #1 03-18-2005, 12:52 PM

Just joined the table, no reads.

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, MP1 calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls.

With a back door flush draw, ragged flop, and one opponent, I think my bet is fine here.

Turn: (3.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, MP1 raises, Hero calls.

I was torn here between getting a free card and betting this scary turn card to pick up the pot right here. I decided to bet because if I check behind and river is blank, if MP1 is at least half thinking player, he’d bet and I would have to let it go. Now, c/r….I don’t think I had the odds to call because I gave my AK 3-4 outs which meant the pot had to offer more than 10-1 (it was 6.75-1), but Ed Miller said somewhere that sometimes it’s ok to call a c/r so people won’t start taking shots at you. So, combined all that, I called.

River: (7.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets, Hero calls.

I thought long and hard about raising, but I was afraid of being reverse dominated here (I put MP1 on KQ) and just called.

Comments?

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

btspider · #2 03-18-2005, 12:56 PM

fold turn. if you think they are taking shots at you. check turn.

river can probably be raised, but i don't want to have to pay off a 3-bet.

riffraff · #3 03-18-2005, 01:08 PM

I think you need to fold the turn after getting check-raised.

Just call the river.

sean c · #4 03-18-2005, 01:21 PM

HU I like the bet the turn check the river through UI line best. I would fold to the turn c/r.

noneckdude · #5 03-18-2005, 01:23 PM

Betting the turn is fine in my opinion. The call after being check-raised however, I think was not. I think you should fold right there. (And sometimes play back if you think you're being 'played' a bit too often.) You could already be drawing dead and half your outs could make things worse. What if you're up against AQ or indeed KQ and you do catch... We'll get 'em next time. Next round please!

MrWookie47 · #6 03-18-2005, 01:40 PM

That's an easy free card to take. I had a problem too with feeling obligated to bet the turn after raising preflop and betting the flop. Checking behind shows your weakness to your opponent, but the fact of the matter is that you are indeed weak.

If you call the turn, you've got to make up your mind what you're drawing to. If you hit your K and still feel like your hand is no good, then why did you call in the first place? Also, you narrowed down your opponents holdings far, far too much. KQ? From where? Just because he check raised you when a Q hit and bet at you when a K hit? He probably just isn't giving you credit for a K. Raise him. You probably have the best hand. If he makes it 3 bets, then consider putting him on KQ (or a slowplayed set, or Q4, or Q9, or Q2...)

Thigh · #7 03-18-2005, 01:43 PM

I don't know. I think you should have taken the free card on the turn. I think sometimes too much thinking goes into a play. That isn't all bad, but sometimes I think it confuses the issues.

For instance, the pot is 3.75 BB. How many outs are you drawing to? I count about 4 to 4.5. You're nowhere near the odds you need, plus you don't have a hand yet, unless you're counting an A high hand.

If you bet, and he c/r's you, then you need to fold. It's not worth it. Pot is entirely too small.

btspider · #8 03-18-2005, 01:50 PM

you guys are being results oriented. a turn bet is just fine, but you have to fold to the c/r. don't think about his outs.. he may very well have the best hand vs an opponent who peeled one off and is ready to fold.

JMBills · #9 03-18-2005, 01:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I thought long and hard about raising, but I was afraid of being reverse dominated here (I put MP1 on KQ) and just called.

[/ QUOTE ]

Without knowing if your opponent is naturally aggressive/passive, I don't think you can say he just has KQ. Wouldn't most micro players (who aren't bluffing) check-raise the turn with more than just top pair? You're probably even worse off than being reverse dominated... behind to two-pair or a set. The worst part is, the pot's small, your opponent probably realizes it too and wants to get the most value out of his hand.

I can't offer advice on the streets yet because I misplay them frequently myself and instead I turn to those who've already posted on that.

Thigh · #10 03-18-2005, 02:16 PM

That seems to be a catch phrase I keep on hearing, "results oriented". I'm not sure I understand that.

Everything I've learned so far tells me not to bet the turn. No hand, too few outs, small pot. But here you are saying, "Hey, forget the outs, that doesn't matter, and forget the size of the pot, just bet."

And I know there are some loose players, and maybe you're right, maybe he does have the best hand. But I wouldn't think so. How often is A high the best hand? This is a less then mediocre hand, with a very small pot. I cannot understand betting here.

Anyone want to elaborate? Thanks.