Party 2/4 UTG KQ

rewt75 · #1 03-18-2005, 02:41 AM

I'm in the middle of my first sizeable downswing at 2/4 and need comments on my play.

Villain in this hand is 75/1/6

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 7 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls.

River: (12.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero folds and plunges further into the downswing.

Final Pot: 15.25 BB

Pulled a Clarkmeister at the end there. Poor application of this? My turn play is not good now that I'm looking at it.

miajag81 · #2 03-18-2005, 02:53 AM

I don't cap the turn. Other than that, looks fine.

college_boy · #3 03-18-2005, 03:40 AM

Against a bad player I don't mind the turn cap. Also if he's a maniac I would check call the river. Against a typical player I like the line you took though, minus the turn cap

miajag81 · #4 03-18-2005, 03:44 AM

Actually, I didn't notice Villian's stats. The turn cap isn't so bad.

Knoler · #5 03-18-2005, 04:00 AM

Is that an aggression rating of 6? Holy crap!

If that's the case, I'd just call the flop, 'cause I'm probably not getting a free card from this guy anyhow and a few of my 10 potential outs are tainted.

On the turn, it's down to reads. If he's the sort who 3-bets with random cards (as would be expected from someone with tot. agg of 6) then I probably cap. Against most, I don't.

I just check the river. Given that I've been 3-bet on the turn, I just don't see how this guy is gonna lay it down.

Regards,
-Brian

einbert · #6 03-18-2005, 05:12 AM

I play it the same but I call the river raise. Too much chance that you're just up against a weirdo maniac.

His AF is 6 for crying out loud! Either check behind on the river (i don't think this is terrible) or bet it and call the raise. don't fold!!!

hate · #7 03-18-2005, 06:12 AM

I think I really like a cc/checkthrough here. I'd be showing down a set on a 4-flush board, I don't see why this is any different.

rewt75 · #8 03-18-2005, 01:40 PM

Guys I flip flopped the aggression rating with the PF raise. It's 1 aggression and 6 PF raise.

flair1239 · #9 03-18-2005, 02:03 PM

The turn IMO is OK. I would not criticise, merely calling the three bet and calling the river though. The reason being is it is really hard to put the guy on a hand at this point because there is so much out there that he (this type of player) could have.

With this hand I do not like folding to the check-raise on the river. The reason being is your hand is good eneough to showdown ( against this type of player). I think if you are planning on folding to a raise, that you should just check this down. At the end there is just enough doubt in my mind that I want to look him up. Call it a crying call or a sanity call if you will.

I only use the theorem on hands that I am comfortable folding to a raise (In some situations I am willing to dump a set, and I think I probably would have here; If you had a set, however I am not comfortable folding the best possible straight here.). If I want to showdown I keep it cheap.

EDIT: Even with an aggression rating of (1), I still play it the same. Players this bad, often overvalue hands. As a matter of fact, IMO just playing the stats on a player like this (meaning this bad) might not be the best idea.

Getting away from the whole PT aggression rating thing, a really bad player will often undervalue marginal hands, and over value some stronger hands. In that it would not suprise me here if he had a set, two pair, or a lower straight. Players this bad often do not take the board or their opponents into consideration; an example of their thinking might be "I have a set, a set is a strong hand, I should win."

That said it also would not suprise me if he had a flush or a straight flush. But still I think we need to showdown here, because the possibility of him overplaying a hand is so great.

I also want to emphasise that even though I would have checked behind on the river, I don't think a bet was out of line, because I really feel there is some value to it against this type of player. But in my mind the big error here was not showing down

Jonny Melon · #10 03-18-2005, 02:09 PM

I don't see why you are raising the flop against a bonafide maniac here. Do you really want to be 3-bet here? You will very often with this kind of player (I'm kind of surprised you weren't, honestly). Just call and see what the turn brings.

Turn is good.

I'm not laying it down on the river. Against most players I am, but I could see the wild man here pulling a river C/R w/ no heart, at least 1 in 15 times.

Jon