Casinos and Taxes

lehighguy · #1 03-15-2005, 01:53 PM

How much does one have to earn before the casino will make you fill out a tax form. The most I've ever made is $650 at a 1/2 game.

Ghazban · #2 03-15-2005, 02:00 PM

I believe that, at Foxwoods, if your transactions for a given day exceed $10K, you have to fill out a form, otherwise its not necessary (someone correct me if I'm wrong). I don't know about other casinos.

tek · #3 03-15-2005, 02:12 PM

Yes, 10k total for cash games in a 24 hour period in the casino (slots, bj, craps, poker, etc).

For tournaments, if you make any money position you'll have to cough up your mark of the beast number.

Nomad84 · #4 03-15-2005, 03:40 PM

If someone were to win, say 15K, would they be able to simply take a few thousand in chips with them and cash them in another day? (Not sure how these things work...never played live)

Jaquen H'gar · #5 03-16-2005, 02:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If someone were to win, say 15K, would they be able to simply take a few thousand in chips with them and cash them in another day? (Not sure how these things work...never played live)

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, you can do it. It's called Structuring and it's a felony. That being said, most people who abut the 10k line do it.

Casinos' thresholds differ but most request an ID when cashing out $2500+. You can refuse but the cashier will usually write down your description. This is so that later during the 24 hour period, if you attempt to cashout, they can try to match you up with an earlier cashout. They will also ask what game you were playing and then call the pit to confirm. If the pit has your players' card, then the cashier will note your name and amount you walked with. If the amount walking is near 10k and differs greatly from the amount being cashed out, then an SAR (not a CTR) should (not necessarily would) be filed.

The form does not actually go to the IRS, a common misconception; it's purpose is not to zing tax avoiders. It goes to the Treasury Dept and it's purpose is to allow the tracking of large amounts of cash to detect money laundering. The form is called a CTR - Cash Transaction Report. It is required of ANY business, not just casinos/banks. If you pay for a car (>10k) in cash, one should (but again, not necessarily would) be filed.

The SAR is a Suspicious Activity Report and is theoretically required when the casino/bank believes someone is attempting structuring.

Sometimes, a CTR can be your friend. If you are stopped by a cop on the way home and he finds a large amount of cash, then the burden of proof is on YOU to prove it was obtained legally. The money will be confiscated and you have to go to court to prove why it should be returned.

Another way a CTR helps is if you need to document some gambling losses to help offset an earlier documented win. Do you know what a high stakes loser looks like to the IRS when audited: a lot of CTR buy-ins, not as many CTR cashouts. For example, your normal buy-in is 5k; buying in at 15k (somewhere other than the table) will trigger a CTR. You pocket 10k and put the other 5k into play on the table. You break even or win a little but only cash out 10-11k, saving 5k in your pocket. This triggers another CTR. This appears like a 4-5k documented loss. A lotta rigamarole, yes, but you just saved around 1k+ in taxes for fiteen minutes of hassle, a better EV than your poker playing.

The casino doesn't WANT to do the CTR. They would rather take your cash without the hassles of paperwork. They do it because they get fined heftily if caught not doing it.

lehighguy · #6 03-16-2005, 02:38 PM

Thanks for the info. That was very in-depth.

I didn't know cops can take your money until you prove where you got it. Jesus Christ when did we start living in Nazi Germany.

Jaquen H'gar · #7 03-16-2005, 06:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the info. That was very in-depth.

I didn't know cops can take your money until you prove where you got it. Jesus Christ when did we start living in Nazi Germany.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's the War on Drugs. This stopping/confiscation is very prevalent in the South. Confiscated money is split among the local gov't and arresting force and helps pay for new cars, guns, equipment, salary additions, etc. You can obviously see their impetous for suspected drug stops.

Bremen · #8 03-16-2005, 06:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
It's the War on Drugs.

[/ QUOTE ] Just out of curiousity is there a minimum where they can't confiscate if its below? Confiscating $100 just seems silly, but do it enough times it adds up, also its impossible to prove where you got such small sums :-\

Shoe · #9 03-16-2005, 07:13 PM

So what if you win 5k playing poker and the cops confiscate it. How can you prove you won it? It's just your word against somebody who doesn't have to prove anything against you?

Would you be able to get a copy of the tapes and make them watch you play your entire session?

Flashy · #10 03-16-2005, 07:25 PM

A $1,200 payout usually triggers a 1099 - in Vegas recently I saw one slot maching advertisng a $1,199 pay-out.

If you finish in the money in a tournament - you will usually have a 1099 regardless of your winnings.

I don't know if Poker Rooms follow the $1,200 rule because of the initial buy-in. Although if I made a killing one night - I would find out and then cash out under the limits.

Also remember you can deduct losses up to winnings. Its not hard to prove that you loss more than you won for a few thousand - but good luck if you ever hit a really big one.