A 1 bet river fold, 30/60 - Page 4

antifish225 · #31 03-15-2005, 09:31 AM

should have check called the river, if someone has the flush then you are only paying one BB to show down - with 2 opponents left betting out when the 3 flsuh hits the river is asking to get raised....

STLantny · #32 03-15-2005, 11:21 AM

If the BB is a total fish, and that scare card club hit, do you think that a river raise, was a sort of "bluff" to get you out of the hand, since he knows that you can not call a river raise, without a flush/straight etc, and mabye he has a weaker hand or a busted draw w/ a pair, so he could take on the weak BB HU for the pot? Something like top pair + flush draw w/ weak kicker?? I find that ppl start doing weird thing when someone is all in.

AviD · #33 03-15-2005, 11:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Button in this hand I have read to be pretty solid postflop, a little too loose preflop, and I have been raising a lot. The BB is a total clown and is almost out of cash.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, Button raises, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, BB calls, Hero caps, Button calls, BB calls.

River: (18.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero calls, Button raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 21.16 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

James:

I've been looking at this hand for awhile now before responding, and something about the turn cap has me meh.

What did you have Button on such that he would 3-bet this turn, but not 3-bet you PF with, and you were still ahead of?

I can't imagine him popping a draw unless he had AcKc but I think he is likely to 3-bet that PF, especially if you have been raising alot (perhaps light at times)...he would take the opportunity to isolate you. There is also the chance he knows BB is clown and wants him in, so AcKc is a possibility.

I think JTs is also a possibility, perhaps not JcTc necessarily as he may be raising the river to get an extra bet out of you now that BB is all in and may have made his draw.

Hands like 99/88/AA you are obviously drawing near dead to. How likely is he to call PF with 99/88, I'd say pretty likey. How likely is he to play AA smooth and tricky like this, it is unclear from the description, but it's not in my likely range of hands to have him on. But again, factoring in you've been raising alot...it is entirely possible for him to try to trap you in a pot that is expected to be HU to a max 4-way (if the blinds are tight, this increases the likelihood he may have AA IMO)...such that he can get value out of his AA (as you are likely to call a 3-bet and check/fold a whiffed flop, but might continue your aggression on any flop).

I know you are folding this river *knowing* you are beat, but I think the river fold is counter intuitive to the turn cap...unless you had him dead on AcKc. For you to cap the turn, you are confident you have the best hand here, yet you are also certain you are beat on the river when he raises...which can only mean his draw got there or you were incorrect in your turn cap.

And although it is unlikely, I don't think it is unreasonable for a solid player to 3-bet A9s here on the turn to protect his hand from the draw, but more times than not he is taking the free/cheap showdown when the draw gets there...not raising it. Unless he truly is solid enough to know you would fold a better hand to a river raise on an obviously draw heavy and draw completed board.

Quite an interesting hand, looking forward to the results.

mike l. · #34 03-15-2005, 01:03 PM

"whats he got?"

some hand. probably the winner, but pot's too big even with bb going all in after taking all that heat. this is a must call with a set.

DcifrThs · #35 03-15-2005, 01:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"whats he got?"

some hand. probably the winner, but pot's too big even with bb going all in after taking all that heat. this is a must call with a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

but if there is 100million in the pot and you're 100% sure you are beat...would you still throw that last bet in there?

-Barron

AviD · #36 03-15-2005, 01:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"whats he got?"

some hand. probably the winner, but pot's too big even with bb going all in after taking all that heat. this is a must call with a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

but if there is 100million in the pot and you're 100% sure you are beat...would you still throw that last bet in there?

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

He would have to show me his hand for me to let go of mine in a 100 million dollar pot for $60 more! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

I think the fold is insanely tough and making the mistake of folding a winner in this spot is an obvious disaster. But we all know James, and I (at least) can't imagine him folding here not being 100% certain he was beat. But we are all prone to mistakes (me more so than anyone else clearly! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]), so perhaps James slipped up in letting this huge pot go for one more bet closing the action. I'll admit, I couldn't/wouldn't make the fold...leak or not.

roy_miami · #37 03-15-2005, 03:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
And although it is unlikely, I don't think it is unreasonable for a solid player to 3-bet A9s here on the turn to protect his hand from the draw, but more times than not he is taking the free/cheap showdown when the draw gets there...not raising it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I must be living in candy land becuase this would be a no brainer 3-bet on the turn with top 2 for me the way this played. Maybe I'm not so weak-tight after all.

James282 · #38 03-15-2005, 03:46 PM

Not that they really matter, but he did in fact have A9c for the rivered nuts. At the time of my turn cap, I put him on the big club draw(given his flop raise, I felt a slowplay was more likely for more monster hands) --- And keep in mind also that the BB was in this hand, adding to my equity if the button did in fact have JTs or a hand I was ahead of. I had to do a lot of shifting in where I thought I was during the hand, and the whole hand felt a little inconsistent. Looking back, I wouldn't have played it any differtently.
-James

mike l. · #39 03-15-2005, 03:53 PM

"I (at least) can't imagine him folding here not being 100% certain he was beat.'

i cant imagine ever being 100% sure of anything online.

Justin A · #40 03-15-2005, 04:00 PM

James,
I really don't see A9 or A8 raising this river, ever.