All-In Semi Bluffs

[angelo alba]

Under the "No limit Nightmare " question in the NL/Pot Limit Forum, Ray was kind enough to answer my question re; going all-in with a four flush or open ended draws:

"do it when there is alot of dead money in the pot and you can win it right there and if called you may be getting close to pot odds. then its a no brainer. or just when you think you could be close to 50/50 with the money odds you are getting. lots of reasons and a big one is if you dont do if often with those hands who is going to call you when you got trips or top two and make a play. its even better in tournaments as it puts callers to commit to going home broke right now if they call and find you with a good hand or if you draw out. look at all the stupid posts about folding winners so you can just stay alive in a tournament. people do play that way and believe you can wait for a better spot, then find they have to stick their last chips in with some random hand. "

I have two additional questions to the tournament players here:

1) How often do you semi-bluff this way? (I'm assuming you agree with Ray). Would you do it twice at one table? Save it only for the early stages of a tourney when the stacks are fairly even? What's your style here?

2) Would you go also semi bluff all in after the flop with only top pair, Assuming 10 or higher and--

Damn! I realize as I'm typing this there's hundreds of variables, but I'd really appreciate your thoughts. . .

Thanks.

[angelo alba]

Gee, was it THAT lame of a question? If it was, my apologies, had I known beforehand I would have posted it on RPG where lameness competes with profanity and arrogance.

The thing is I am not yet a tourney NL player and I'd appreciate advice.

Mulling it over I would think that, in the case of a four flush, if you had an overcard or, better yet, managed to pair top card on the 4 flush it'd be a good idea; an example of the first would be QJs and a board with 78s and a 3h, with no one short stacked or high-stacked enough , thus lowering the chances of being called.

I think that if the flop was AcKd and 78s it would be a bad move against 4 or more (or for all I know heads up!) since if someone has made a pair, you're going to be called and chances are , what 10% of your making a flush vs beting his pair? And the higher the board cards the more likely a pairing has happenned, and KK or AA ain't folding to anything.

I say 'I think", truth is I'm guessing.

Er.. could anyone be kind enough to read my post and help me out a bit?

Thanks in advance

[sdplayerb]

Yes I semi-bluff with a fluch draw. Ray pretty much said it already. You have two ways to win, 1) a fold or 2) you are getting good odds to hit your flush compared to the pot.
I also prefer to do this with an over card hoping that it adds 3 outs for me.

If the person folds, then they don't know you semi-bluffed so why not do it again. And with the odds I don't know I would completely call it a semi-bluff, just a good play to me.

on your second question, if you have top pair why is that a semi bluff? You aren't bluffing if you have a strong hand.
And I would need to know the chip situation to state where I was going all-in or not.

Hope that helps.

SD

[angelo alba]

sdplayerb: Thanks, man. It does help. I think you're right on the money about 'doing it again' if the person folds. I guess you'd have to cool it for a while if you were called , made your flush or straight and doubled up, but that'd be a nice problem to have [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

I play limit and as we all know, top pair is bread and butter. I'd raise of course, but somehow it seemed to me that in NL going all in with top pair (except heads up or shorthanded) is a semi-bluff, even if you were the chip leader?

Thanks again [img]/forums/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[happyjaypee]

I do it in tourneys but rarely in earlyer stages. Also, I need a draw to the nut flush or nut openend str8 whit Overcards. Otherwise I'll likly pass the hand. This move is not an automatic. Depends a lot on your position, players in the hand and stack size.

Say you have Q [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] and flop comes T [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 3 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] , That's almost always an all-in on flop if stack size allow it. Check raising all-in is also an interesting option.

I'd like to hear others think but I belive that those moves work best in a heads up situation, sometimes in three way pots.

I'm not a pro but those moves have proven themself for me in many online tourney. Also, like Ray sayed, people will be more tempted to call you if you make the same move whit top set later on.

-Happy [img]/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

[sdplayerb]

It would really depend on the chip count if i was to push all-in with top pair. I'd probably want some action also. But you also have to be willing to get away from the hand if your opponent plays it very aggressive. If you do push in where you are overbetting the pot, you will likely only get action if you are beat..so that is not a good situation to be in. I'd probably go with a pot sized bet to make him pay to outdraw you.

On the side of their seeing that you play draws aggressively, do try to take note of this as this can be important later.
1) if you do become a chip leader keep doing it and putting the pressure on
2) i have been in that situation more than a few times where I am view as overly aggressive. The thing I most like is that when I do make a hand, they'll call you and you get a ton of chips. They just don't know what you have. But you have to be willing to get away from a hand if they are the aggressor. You want to be the aggressor, not call the aggressor (unless you have like two pair or better, obviously situational).

And you don't necessarily have to push all-in to do a semibluff. Betting the pot should be fine if that still leaves you with a lot of chips if you don't hit. Plus it can get you a free card on the turn or even to another bluff where he could fold.

SD

[JohnM]

hHad a similar no response to a question about what to do when you flop a set and the board is both coordinated and suited.
As to your question, I will tend to make a little more conservative approach depending on my opponents and the previous action. It sounds like you are in the blind, first to act and got a free play. In that case, I think it is an excellent move. I would also agree if you are in last position and it has been checked to you. With previous action on that round, all bets are off and I may muck the hand - again, depending on the chip count, stage of the tourney and the player that created the action.
good luck