Lim O8 10k PTO review @ Micro Limits

[arcticfire]

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too tight, not aggressive enough

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Fair enough, I've already suspected I've been playing too tightly. At least lately. What would you see as the ideal VP$P for Limit?

What class of marginal hands would you suggest adding to the mix of premium hands?

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Not sure , but here are my stats from my last foree over at paradise tables:

Hands : 4226
VP$IP : 19.26
VP$ISB: 26.23
Won$WSF: 24.03

BB/100 2.68

Went To SD: 32.39
Won $SD : 64.66

PF Aggr:0.18
Flop Aggr:0.75
Turn Aggr:1.18
River Aggr: 1.36

Perhaps you could add hands like 23xx (with decent XX) to your repitor ? There really arn't that many "marginal" hands that I think should be added to a full table strategy.

[gergery]

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What would you see as the ideal VP$P for Limit?

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Not sure yet. The opponents i respect seem to be 17-26 VPIP or so right now. But its very game dependent. If there are lots of fish then a VPIP below 25 can leave money on the table because the wider range of hands is still profitable. But you will get crushed with a VPIP thats as loose as 22 if the game is tight and opponents are good.

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What class of marginal hands would you suggest adding to the mix of premium hands?

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4 cards A thru T are profitable for me as long as not rainbow no pair. A3s, A45, even A4s on its own is profitable for me. KKds, AAxx with help is also profitable.

The main problem with playing as tight as you do is that its easy for good opponents to put you on hands, and you won't get as much action on your good hands.

And the main problem with your low aggression numbers is that you have to be forgoing bets when you have strong equity positions but no made hand yet.

--Greg

[L0QTiS]

I think part of my problem has been multi-tabling. Prior to recently getting a UXGA laptop, I would almost never play more than 1 or 2 tables at once. I have 6 months of hand stats (Pre PTO) where I was managing about 1-2 BB/hr at both 1/2 and 2/4 over 400 hours combined and quite a bit less at .5/1 (probably around 0.3 BB/ hr)

With the addition of the new laptop and more tables, decisions fly faster I've dropped some hands in early position in liu of quick decisions. Hands like 23JT, A3s69, A4s5X amongst others which I would likely play in later position. I've dropped hands like AJTX with a suited ace and a dangler 6-9 in very late position and given the loose games I play in I wonder if I'm giving up EV.

I do play in higher limits (currently up to 3-6), and I think my micro limit multi-tabling habits have affected my small stakes play. Add to this the fact that I'm either running bad, or I've developed some really bad habits. I'm down about 100BB at 2/4 since December '04. Of my leaks, I think both misplaying specific two-pair hands and river counterfeit 'crying calls' are major contributors to this, but maybe the fact that I'm not making enough on my good hands is more of a factor here.

[arcticfire]

Comparing your stats to mine and going off what you have said I think it's mostly lack of agression thats killing you. For instance acording to your stats you like never raise pre-flop. 0.03.

If you are only playing primium hands , which you seem to have a good grasp of what those are, I think why your going down is not so much bad luck as not extracting enough value from your good hands. Put another way whats the point of only playing good cards if you don't get paid for them ?

Consider also that a big part of the profit in O8 is based of taking money from people playing sub par hands. Say you hold A2s4K , it's preflop and your in late position. 7 people limp in front of you what do you do ? Right here odds are your hand is better profit potental wise then 5 out of 7 of those callers. This is the point where your hand is far suprior so this is where you should punish them for playing bad hands by chipping in a riase. This is also where they are most likly to call the raise with their garbage.

Then if you miss the flop totally you can throw the hand away with ease. It's not like you have to be deceptive with what your holding. If you have any decent draw say a flop of 35Q , feel free to put in another raise. Only not raising when you feel a raise would drive people out.

Once people get used to you raising preflop they will stop folding to it (some will get upset and reraise back like that is supposed to teach you a lesson or something). You can actually loosen up the table simply by raising more pre-flop. The looser the table the more likly the bad players are to get caught up in all that table action , and the more likly the good opponents are gonna call with marginal hands because they are getting proper pot odds to do so.

So at the end of the day I would say don't try adding junk hands to your selection , simply go full bore and open up with your betting. You'll still win the same % of hands you did before , you'll just get paid more for them (providing you do know how to throw it away if it goes bad).

Good luck!

[gergery]

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Hands like 23JT, A3s69, A4s5X amongst others which I would likely play in later position. I've dropped hands like AJTX with a suited ace and a dangler 6-9 in very late position and given the loose games I play in I wonder if I'm giving up EV.


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23xx is my biggest leak by far. I am tightening up alot with those and will now throw away 23JT from the button in unraised pot. You just need to many other good things to happen on the flop. My rule is you need position + two other features (suited K, other wheel card, ds, etc.) to make it playable.

I like A3s69 and will play from any position for 1 bet.

I like A45s and will play from any position. You have good implied odds, because your opponents will be playing A2/A3 so if a 2 or 3 hits they will often chase for high. This is a good example of a hand that will win more $$ than its pure simulation hot/cold results would suggest. The reverse implied odds is also why i don't like 23xx -- it makes less $$ than hot/cold indicate.