Playing the SB after an idiot raises from the CO/Button . . .

[arkady]

I would 3-bet that kind of monkey with KJ, however the SB poses several problems. This is a personal thing, but I prefer to have a worse hand with position than a better hand with out position.

So if I were you, I would probably not 3-bet, but that is because I hate acting first after I 3bet w/a marginal hand. Hmm, ok my reply is useless.

[Grisgra]

Arkady -- coldcall, then, or fold your KJ?

[arkady]

oh, yeah, fold it, I sometimes fold good hands like AQ in the SB, thats how much I hate playing out of position. But obviously not to donks like you described, but KJ...bleh.

[Jeff W]

I prefer cold-calling to 3betting. You will have good relative position post flop and can manipulate the other players by facing them with two cold when you pair up.

I think you have a large enough equity share pre flop that you make money by calling.

[MAxx]

I don't see much wrong with raising a weak limper from the button with KT. On the other hand the T9s after 2 limpers would raise my ebrows too.

I agree that 3betting doesnt seem like a good plan with KJo unless he was openraising.

First time or two I saw this donkey raise like this, I would fold hands like KJo. 3rd time I call.

[tolbiny]

I despise calling with KJo in this position- haveing the 2$ discount in the SB (at the 5/10 level) just isn't much of a consolation.
A hand like KJo has the ever famous reverse implied odds against it- and if you think you are getting enough equity preflop to clal you really should be raising to punish the weak limpers (which they would have to be for you to justify a call) and take a shot at driving them out of the pot and creating dead money.

[TStoneMBD]

im one of these monkeys. i raise alot of hands on the button and will raise a limper with T9s in many situations. frankly, i dont like being 3bet. it sucks. also, it sucks when people start check-calling the flop and checkraising the turn against me. i end up spewing alot of chips that way.

just my 2 cents.

[Jeff W]

I assumed Grisgra's post was targetted at 10/20 where his pot odds are 6.33:1(2 limpers+BB) or 5:1(1 limper+BB) instead of 5/10 where he gets 4.56:1(2 limpers+BB) or 3.44:1(1 limper+BB). As you can see, big difference in pot odds between the two levels.

[Gk123]

From the looks of your post it seems that this cat is somewhat deceptive in his pre-flop style, and since u arn't just labeling him a maniac u can figure him for some "Decent" hand.
By "Decent" I mean random suited connectory, 2 cards 9 or above etc., possibly some random A, or small pair.
There are also times in that dude is just going to have something that has KJ in allot of trouble.


As far as the limpers, it is my esp. that most people who are weak enough to limp fully intend to play the hand.

With limpers, raiseing would more than likely just make KJ harder to play as folding of limping cats is less than 50/50. This with the fact the range of hands that the button could have definatly puts u in a tough spot.

Putting in multiple bets with a KJ in the SB in multi-way pot seems bad to me yo.

Now if dude is 1st in on button, definatly a different story. If u think there is a shot at getting BB out then raise. I'm not a fan of playing any hand out of SB agaist steal when i ain't runnin the show.

The range of hands I might do this with would include any pair, QJ, KJ, A9 etc etc etc.


Either way, need to be sure that u don't fall in love with 3 betting out of SB, the possition is awful

[fyodor]

I'm reminded of the theme song from M.A.S.H.

As others have pointed out, 3 betting KJo against a lone CO/Button stealer is one thing, but when there are loose limpers to contend with it borders on suicidal.