Maby why the "average" player will never be better.

[JonLines]

Try telling Phil Helmuth that!

[GreywolfNYC]

[ QUOTE ]
Try telling Phil Helmuth that!

[/ QUOTE ]
I am not talking about someone who has won nine WSOP bracelets. I am talking about the average, losing player.

[arcticfire]

Going to do this as best I can not being overly agile with quoting.

[ QUOTE ]

Surely not all of your students were failures.


[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly not. None have become pro's either but then none so far seem to have that desire.

[ QUOTE ]

Can you name three specific approaches?


[/ QUOTE ]

Gambling , hobby/entertainment , immitation. I put hobby/entertament in the same category since they are fundamently similar , you don't have hobbies that arn't entertaining. Gambling was the hardest to teach anything to. Immitation I mean those whom seem to think it's "cool".

[ QUOTE ]

What would happen if you trained people whose ONLY desire would be to make money rather than to "play"? Do you think that it is possible to take someone who has never gambled all his life and make him play winning poker?


[/ QUOTE ]

Without a doubt i think this is possible.

[ QUOTE ]

Suppose they played with your bankroll and you had 100% control over all game selection decisions, do you think they could be long-term winners?


[/ QUOTE ]

Unfair question. Game selection is not the only factor that creates a -EV. Also I don't think anyone learns much from playing without risking their own money.

[ QUOTE ]

Suppose you had a magic wand that would miraculously change a losing player's focus from playing to money gathering, do you think this would be REALLY be enough to turn them from losers to winners? Are you sure that this focus adjustment would be the only adjustment needed?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think if they have the maturity to back up the mindset then yes it would be enough. It is obviusly thow not the only adjustment needed for a losing player.

[Dov]

[ QUOTE ]
I think if they have the maturity to back up the mindset then yes it would be enough. It is obviusly thow not the only adjustment needed for a losing player.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you should realize that the mechanical ABC style of playing will not create a winner above low limits. Once they get to the middle limits, if they don't enjoy playing, they will get crushed. This is because many of the middle limit players already understand ABC style play and know how to counter it. Poker starts to become more player dependent and failure to continue to develop in that area will guarantee long term failure.

Dov

[arcticfire]

[ QUOTE ]
Try telling Phil Helmuth that!

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL. You could know all there is to know about the game and know every angle and still be a world class jerk. Phil shows that is possible heh.

[arcticfire]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think if they have the maturity to back up the mindset then yes it would be enough. It is obviusly thow not the only adjustment needed for a losing player.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you should realize that the mechanical ABC style of playing will not create a winner above low limits. Once they get to the middle limits, if they don't enjoy playing, they will get crushed. This is because many of the middle limit players already understand ABC style play and know how to counter it. Poker starts to become more player dependent and failure to continue to develop in that area will guarantee long term failure.

Dov

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree to some extent. However someone with only the mindset of making money is not going to roboticly sit there and play ABC poker. They will be searching for every edge possible to get as much money as possible from their opponents.

[arcticfire]

[ QUOTE ]

If the desire to make more money is what drives a good poker player, why do the best poker players in the world never seem to retire? Most of them are made for life, but its the desire that keeps them coming back.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well first consider what you define as "the best poker playes in the world" ? Is it who won WSOP last year ? Or is it that guy who pulled 100k off the tables for the past 10 years in ring games you never heard of ?

Consider that most of the "best" we hear about are big turny winners. And props to them for it. After 40 years of playing chances are the only reason I would still be playing was for love of the game. Because god knows if the money still ment something I was never a good player to begin with since I wouldn't have build up an investment portfolio outside the game with my winnings.

Playing for the glitz , and the lights and the "title" in some big named turny would be a wholy different experince and motivation then purly making money. At least it would for me. Especially with the crap shoot WSOP main event is becomming with the what expected 5,000+ participants next time ?

[LinusKS]

I think what you're talking about is the desire to gamble, not the desire to play.

Wanting to play doesn't hurt anything.

If you don't like playing, you probably shouldn't play, if for no other reason than you only have so much time on the earth.

Plus, it'd be hard - if not impossible - to get the necessary time in, if you didn't enjoy it in the first place.

Wanting to gamble is something else. The best I can figure is, for a gambler, the thrill of beating the odds is what it's all about. That's why they play slots, and other -ev games, and why they play poker the way they do.

The money they lose is just the price they pay for the thrill of sucking out.

[Radio]

Personaly The only reason i started playing poker was because I was searching for a way to make money. I read some news paper report about a woman who made $$$$$$$ online and bought her own house with cash ect ect I thought id look into it and started playing and searching the net for info and i found this forum and have'nt looked back.

Does this give me the right mind set to be a winning player? Im basicaly stuck in a dead end job and i need money to get myself out of this whole im in and poker is the light at the end of the tunnel. However in the process i have thus far discoverd that i actualy do like playing poker and i look forward to playing it. But hate it when on a loosing streak. Iv also discoverd that i like gambling and almost lost my casnio bonus on my first whoring attempt but im mature enough to quash the urge to gambe and just grind it out at $1 bets.

[Spekkio]

If you watch the WPT, when it's still 6 handed, you still see a lot of elements of "ABC poker." People don't raise with 2 7 offsuit from UTG, for example.