How Would You Play It: KQ flopped two pair

The.Filth · #1 03-09-2005, 12:14 AM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

MP ($597)
Hero ($917.1)
Button ($600)
SB ($1629.8)
BB ($1234.2)
UTG ($350.1)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $3.
UTG raises to $25, 1 fold, Hero calls $25, 2 folds.

Flop: ($59) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets $45, Hero raises to $90, UTG folds.

Final Pot: $194

Results in white below: 
Hero doesn't show.
Button doesn't show.
Outcome: Hero wins $171.50. Button wins $22.50. 

Would you have raised the flop? Or would you have pretended to be on a straight draw, thus inducing him to try to bluff you out at the turn?

nebben · #2 03-09-2005, 12:29 AM

Im foraying into higher limits than im used to. Do you have a read on UTG that lets you call that bet. Personally, I might have folded preflop, because i would have felt dominated. Is that weak tight?

The.Filth · #3 03-09-2005, 02:28 AM

KQ is quite a monster hand in 6max play. Yes that would be a bad fold preflop I believe. If you're not going to play with KQ, what are you going to play with? In certain circumstances though, you may need to fold KQ preflop though.

warlockjd · #4 03-09-2005, 03:54 AM

1. Fold preflop, unless you have a very player specific reason for not doing so. Even then, you must be able to fold TP often. Probable UTG raising hands that dominate you include AA, KK, AK, AQ.

2. Pot the flop. If he calls or raises you must decide if you are up against a set or AK and go from there.

3. [ QUOTE ]
Or would you have pretended to be on a straight draw

[/ QUOTE ]

Naked J or T? No.

carini04 · #5 03-09-2005, 11:37 AM

Careful, a move like this can be extremely dangerous! K Q is a good hand with six players but with the big raise preflop, 8 out of 10 times I am gonna fold this. Unless, like someone else said, you had a specific reason to call this. But I really liked the raise after the flop(maybe a little high??), some times they call sometimes they don't, just try not to let them catch! which you did.

turnipmonster · #6 03-09-2005, 11:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
But I really liked the raise after the flop(maybe a little high??)

[/ QUOTE ]

uhh, it's a minimum raise.

djoyce003 · #7 03-09-2005, 11:47 AM

You have to raise here as there are several draws on the board. He probably raised a pocket pair and is not going to put any more into this pot after you call anyway so I'm really not sure there was anything you could have done to win more here.

the alex · #8 03-09-2005, 12:03 PM

The only hand that I would be afraid of here is QQ or KK. Does he have JJ, AK, or AQ. It is 6-handed so the PF raise is good and he's playing those the same way. I don't know the player, but I'm thinking that if he has KK or QQ, he's NOT betting the flop.

That being said, I like a smooth call. The only way that you're getting outdrawn is with a T or an A. I'd have picked him off on the turn, but if you're gonna raise here, raise it to at least $100-$110.

Cornell Fiji · #9 03-09-2005, 12:36 PM

There has been a lot of bad advice so far in this thread so let me throw my hat into the ring...

The advice to fold preflop is terrible and obviously should not be considered at a 6 max NL game. If one can't play well enough postflop to show a profit with KQ in these games then I would suggest dropping limits and going to the 10 max game.

The advice to raise less on the flop is comical.

The post saying 'with all of these draws out...' the flop is rainbow, the most likely draws for the villain are a set draw and a two pair draw. When the flop is 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] there are a lot of draws out.

On to the hand I am somewhat torn. You are way ahead of AK/AQ and way behind KK/QQ/JT. JJ and TT have 6 cards that will beat you and AA has 5 on the turn and 8 on the river. I don't really think that you can limit the villain to just these 7 hands but these are the hands with which there will be the most action.

It is important to keep in mind here that the villain only has $350 to start the hand. He has 280 left after his flop bet and would have only a pot sized bet left if he calls your minraise.

The greatest benefit to the flop raise is that it will most likely get him to play for his stack if he has AA/AK. (Do you plan on calling if he 3-bets the flop and goes all-in?)

The problems with the flop raise are that you seem to be tying yourself to the pot when beat and also that you give hands like AQ a cheap way out if the villain is tight (playing this hand would be much easier given any reads.)

What do you plan to do if you are smooth called and then UTG leads out? UTG, with only 235 left after calling the flop raise, only has one possible aggressive action and that is pushing all in on the turn. With 240 in the pot it would be really hard for you to lay down to a turn all-in without a read. Your raise didnt give you any information - you still have no idea if he has a hand that you beat or one that has you crushed, do you want to play for your stack with top 2 here?

If he calls on the flop what is your plan if an A, J, T turns and he pushes? What if an A, J, T turns and he checks? (I would call a push on a J/T would fold to an A, I would check behind a J/T, push any non ace, check behind an ace)

I actually think that this is a pretty drawfree board, the only hands that he should be opening for UTG that can draw out on you are AJ, JJ, TT and aces up draws. I would probably have a hard time getting away from this hand (given no read) and therefore my objective would be to reel the villain in when he has a hand that I beat (he is getting my money when he does hold the two remaining kings.) The flop minraise would let some players get away from too many losing hands and would also tie the hero to the pot, I would smooth call and either bet the turn if checked to or push(/sometimes fold) if he bets into me.

-Steve

Gainsay · #10 03-09-2005, 01:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]

It is important to keep in mind here that the villain only has $350 to start the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is important to keep in mind and is one of many good reasons to fold pre-flop.

The way the hand was played, I would have raised more on the flop.