Opinions on a Floor ruling

[PanchoVilla]

20-40 game at Bay101 Sunday night. Excellent game. Seat 3 is a LAG player and Seat 10 is a loose calling station.
Play gets to the river and the board is 9-7-x-x-x. Seat 3 bets out and is called by seat 10. Seat 3 says "You win" and turns over his 7-6. Seat 10 shows one card, a 9 and then tosses his other card facedown towards the muck. The card actually just touches the muck.
Seat 3 now says isn't that a dead hand? I want to know the rule. Seat 10 immediately grabs his facedown card, which was an 8 and turns it over and starts telling the other player how much he sucks, etc. He is bitching about how thats not how they do it at foxwoods. (like that matters at Bay 101)
The floor comes and calls for the camera and the rack up the pot while they wait. It takes about 15 mins and he comes back and awards the pot to seat 10 saying the ONLY reason he is getting the pot is because the other player said you win, otherwise his hand would be dead.

If you agree with the decision what if the player said "You have to have me beat" or "I missed" instead?

I guess the lesson is never say "You win". I am 90% sure that even if he had not said you win Seat 10 probably would have done the same thing. He never bothered to protect his hand sitting in the 10 seat even after one player mentioned it like 300 times.

Also for the dealer. Should he have swept the discarded card fully into the muck once it had touched it? I was wondering what they should do there.

Marcus

[Kaz The Original]

I've had people say you win to me before and they took the pot down (like when I capped the turn all-in when I hit the flush and he had a bad full house). I think that the guy with the pair of nines should have lost the pot tho. Mucked is mucked.

[Dov]

If the card touched the muck, it is a dead hand. In addition, the 10 seat clearly folded. The dealer should have taken the cards and awarded the pot to the 3 seat.

Do they play cards speak at this casino? If they do, it shouldn't matter what the 3 seat said. You need 2 cards to win, and the 10 seat only has 1 now.

Protect your hand seems to be the rule of the day. In addition, don't ever tell your opponent that they won the hand, until after they muck. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Dov

[ShawnHoo]

Cards speak.

When player 3 turned up his hand, it placed the obligation on 10 to show both of his cards to claim the pot. He didn't, so the pot should have gone to 3.

This seems like a bad ruling to me, even though 3 is clearly a douche for making a stink about it.

[Kaz The Original]

But 3 didn't ask for the pot, he asked to know what the rules were. I think that's fine.

[ShawnHoo]

He clearly made a stink about it if they ended up reviewing the tape. The non-douche move would have been to ask about it away from the table after the next hand had been dealt.

Edit: The fact that the opponent was a loose calling station makes the move particularly bad, though I would assume #3 isn't a good enough player to realize that. Do you see why?

[oscark]

Best burritos...and it's not close.

Floor decision was no good and I've seen much worse at B101.

[PanchoVilla]

I was pretty mixed on what I thought was the right call. I thought he was going to call the hand dead and give the pot to the 3 seat. But I was only leaning that way 55/45%.

I think the 3 seat had a valid point but even though he was "asking for the rule" I think he was really trying to get the other guys hand called dead. Early he had been called on the river and announced 2-pair and then paused for a second and then turned his hand over and had one pair and said something like, oh I thought I had two pair.

Personally I was just just rooting for whatever decision would have the least chance of making either of those players leave the table. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[TStoneMBD]

i like the fact that floor was diligent enough to check the cameras to make a proper ruling, even though he got it wrong. i dislike the fact that the floor didnt continue the game while making his decision. im not sure what the proper rule is about pausing the game, but they should certainly set the pot aside while play continues.

ill let others elaborate.

[tpir90036]

[ QUOTE ]
The card actually just touches the muck.

[/ QUOTE ]
If the hand can be clearly identified and a mistake was made the floor can rule to make the players hand live. I think there is a section in Robert's Rules of Poker about this... but I am too lazy to look it up.

I have seen at both the Taj and Borgata cases where players thought they had lost based on what their opponent said and thrown their hands towards the dealer... both times one of the cards was slightly touching the muck when the wronged player told the dealer to wait... and both times the hand was made live by the floor and the player was awarded the pot.

However, in this case, they never did get his 2nd card back up.... so it would seem like they screwed it up. Although there is no doubt the player with the best hand won. So I don't think it's that big of a deal.