Maniac tendencies?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

PP 2/4 last night - a little background first. I've been playing about an hour at this table. Fairly loose passive but with sporadic aggression. I am familiar with about half the players. Player 2 to my left will cal pre-flop with a wide variety of hands and call to the river on hope alone. He will only raise with the nuts. Player on my right has impressed me as a weak calling station.

I'm dealt 7 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] in the BB

UTG+1 calls, UTG +2 raised, C/O calls 2 cold SB calls, I call, UTG+1 calls. 5 to the flop for 10 sb

Flop 6 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] K [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img]

My first thought is that I'll check-raise the pre-flop raiser and try to buy a free card to my 2-outer while representing a flush draw.

SB bets out (so much for plans), I raise, UTG folds, UTG+1 makes it 3 bets, C/O folds, SB calls 2 cold and I call. 3 see the turn for 19 sb.

At this point I put the preflop raise on a strong K, but not KK and the SB on K6, K5. 65, 66 or 55. I know I'm behind and drawing thin, but the pot's big enough - if the right card falls, maybe I can bluff a flush.

Turn 8 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] [6 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] K [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] ]

There it is. SB checks, I bet, UTG+1 folds, SB calls. 11.5 bb in the pot, heads up.

River 7 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] [6 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] K [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 8 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] ]

he checks, I grit my teeth and bet (I can hear Dynasty saying "worse hands will call") he calls.

Results later. Flame away. Was this a maniac play?

[Burnt Toast]

I would have folded on the flop. You have a 2 outer. You will hit about 1 in 23. There are four other people in and a raise from someone who will only raise with good hands. you have a hidden second pair, but if these people are calling stations (like you said) they will likely chase a number of bets. Therefore you will almost certaintly need to improve to win. Some of your outs are tainted flush draw, straight draw, etc. At 10 bets in preflop and another bet into you, you are getting 11:1. This isn't close to what you need. I think even after you put 2 more (losing odds) bets into the pot and it comes back to you 19:1 it is now still not a certain call.

Your play on later streets is fine, but you got lucky to even have a chance.

Just my opinion
Toast

[Ginogino]

Kurn:
I think I'd have trouble seeing the turn. What outs you have are moderately to seriously compromised (7 gives you a set but puts 3 parts to the straight on board, and 7c in particular creates a flush draw as well; 8 or 4 gives you an open-ended straight draw, and you have a pair of the gutshot card, but 8c or 4c puts a possible flush on board).

Certainly things seem to have turned out as well as you could hope for, and if you're right that SB holds two pair, then he almost surely doesn't have a flush. I think it possible that SB holds a hand other than two pair (KQ with the Q of clubs, for instance) that are consistent with his betting.

Preflop he calls 2 cold (actually 1.5 cold in SB). On the flop he lead bets, then calls 2 cold when it's raised and re-raised to him. On the turn, when both straight and flush potential emerges, he check-calls. And on the river (though with Qc he should probably value bet) he worries about the power you've been representing and checks. I don't say he has KQ (or KJ or K9) with a club. I do say that if your read about his having two pair is wrong, then you are going to lose an extra bet.

On the other hand, I have enjoyed your posts. They are among those I turn to early on when there are multiple replies, so I'll rethink my opinion on your flop play. By the way, some months ago you ended your posts with the Klingon proverb about revenge being a dish best served cold. I heard the other day that that was something of a mis-translation. It should have read: "Revenge is a dish best served with coleslaw." Odd folks, those Klingons.

Best holdiday wishes,
Gino

[Yerma]

If you don't have the stomach to see the turn with this hand then you can't play the 2-4 game, weakie.

[Yerma]

Ya, worse hands than a flush, like a straight will call the river. You maniac.

[bernie]

im done on the flop with this one...

you dont really have 2 outs...you have 1....if the 7 <img src="/forums/images/icons/club.gif" alt="" /> comes, you cant really like you hand that much....not to mention a free card play in the BB? what about position dont you understand? though i HAVE seen it happen, it's rare.

i think you wasted alot of chips on this hand post flop...youre trying to bluff calling stations..hello! why are they called calling stations? not to mention when the CS are betting much less 3 betting..(especially the guy you said only bets with the nut...he's the one 3 betting) do you need a bigger sign?

that said, you may have sucked out on the end, hitting the weak part of your set....id be suprised if the caller didnt have a small flush or a K(if he's an idiot to stay in that long with only a pair)

id pick your spots better, this wasnt a good one...even if you won the pot, you lost alot in the long run based on your reasoning. it wasnt for a variation play or an image play, which would be a passable excuse for this misplay.

if you showed this hand, id tighten up, since youd probably get some action from the more observant players on the table...but you totally disregarded your description of the players on the table along with how they were playing this hand.

good luck

b

[bernie]

if calling stations are betting and you stay in, youre wasting chips chasing a 1 out draw....

nothing weak about that....it's smart cards....

chaser

b

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

SB shows 6 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 6 [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] and I get an early Christmas present.

For some context - in the hand just before this one, I limped from UTG with A [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] All folded to the BB who checked through a flop of 2 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] A [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] , a turn of A [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] and a river of 5 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] the betting on each street went he checks, I bet, he calls. At the end he turned over K [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img]

I let his play on that hand blind me to how I played the one on this post. Fortunately, I lucked out this time.

Hopefully I've learned my lesson. [img]/forums/images/icons/blush.gif[/img]

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Thanks Gino. I actually prefer "Gagh is always best when served live."