The "Loose Table" Rule

[docknet]

Hmm... Lately I have had my premium, high pocket pairs called (3-4xBB) and beaten by 62s, A6o. It gets frustrating. So I play tight in the beginning. The problem with this approach is that you often find yourself low on chips later in the tourny and having to take a few chances to catch up--which doesn't always work either.

Is it just me, or has the laggy play got even worse over the past few months on PP and PS?

[woodguy]

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Is it just me, or has the laggy play got even worse over the past few months on PP and PS?


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You must be at my table a lot. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Seriously, more lags = better table, for me anyhow.

Regards,
Woodguy

[wegs the wegs]

Maybe I am seeing the paragraph a little bit different from everyone else, even Harrington himself.

What I am hearing is play loose aggressive early to take advantage of all the others playing loose aggressive. So in order to beat them play the same cards and the same style they do. Right? Am I the only one not making any sense of this?

I've played LAG in tournaments before and it seems to me that it just doesn't equal playing TAG. If you get monster hands early being TAG you will get paid off and be at a very nice stack. If you get cold cards you are garuanteed to survive for awhile. Loose play may get lucky once in awhile, but overall it leads to disaster.

Applying Harrington's theory is just playing like a fish in order to beat the fish.

[woodguy]

I agree with Harrington to a point.

You need a deep stack to splash around and online is generally not condusive to that.

You may start deep online, but the blinds more very quickly so I find that you can't open right up like you can deep stacked with slow blinds.

But if you are on a table with idiots you need to get in there with them, no question. (and in my case show them I'm a bigger idiot [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])

You also have to be comfortable that you can outplay your opponenets post flop.

edit: This goes against the advice "play opposite of the table", but when the dead money is there, you need to make a move when you can, especially if you have position, because it will not be there for long.

Regards,
Woodguy

[Potowame]

I have tryed to switch up from trny to trny, just trying to get to where I feel is the most comfortable style for me. I play at UB and Stars where you have alittle room to splash around.

I just have a hard time laying down AJs after I have seen the same player raise the pot 2-3 times every orbit and showing down Q10-Ax and other crap. I think this goes along with passing up small edges early in a trny. On the range of hands you have a small edge of equity, but most people fold here looking for a better spot.

of Course TAG really never puts you to alot of hard calls or laydowns. But you really have to depend on the cards to hit you pretty good early or a monster hold up during the 100-150 blind range.

[MLG]

There was a really good post about this in the STT a while ago. Strassa and Gigabet were talking about it, and the concensus was you need to gamble against these LAGs. Just because they are LAGs and bound to lose their chips does not mean they are going to lose them to you. So, you should take any edge to try and get those chips before somebody else does. The LAG might get all his chips in way behind later, but there is no guarentee that you will be the one on the receiving end of the boon.

[Potowame]

there is no guarentee that your KK wil hold up against the bad players A3s, when you are SS.

I have passed up edge after edge to get a monster edge, only to have it get clobbered by a crap hand. that is one of the biggest reasons I am considering changing my whole style, to have the chips to survive the Bad Beats that you WILL take.

[Che]

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Applying Harrington's theory is just playing like a fish in order to beat the fish.

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Your post seems to imply that playing LAG = playing like a fish. This is definitely not true.

For example, in the Harrington quote that inspired this thread, 3 players who are LAGs, but definitely not fish, were named.

The reality is that you can be a fish regardless of which style you play.

Harrington's point is that you should play LAG when against LAGs who are inferior to you, but you should not play LAG when competing with LAGs that are superior to you.

It only makes sense that you should not try to do the same thing others are doing if they do it better than you. But, what do you do when you are better than the opponents at the game they play (LAG, in this context), but you have other options that might be even more profitable for you (e.g. TAG, in this context)?

Dan seems to be arguing that playing superior LAG is better than TAG. My initial reaction is to agree since LAG play (at least preflop) gives you more opportunities to outplay the fishy LAGs than playing TAG does.

If you have always played TAG, playing LAG against fishy LAGs can be very scary at first since you will bust out early much more often than you previously did. However, the fact that you're busting out early more often does not mean you have become a fish. (You may have become a fish, but you would need more evidence to prove it. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img])

Later,
Che

[Potowame]

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(You may have become a fish, but you would need more evidence to prove it. )



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[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

Very good post Che, You have inspired me to become a better LAG AKA FISH.

Take most players on this forum, thay can come out of the first hour with a below average stack 15-20bb and feel okay about thier chances. While you look at the LAGS that come out of the first hour with 100+BB and get destroyed later.

You passed up many small edges and a few large edges that you kicked yourself for to survive. I just think at some point to become the best trny player online, you must master the ART of LAG.

[woodguy]

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I just think at some point to become the best trny player online, you must master the ART of LAG.


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Shhhhhhhhhhh.
You're not supposed to tell anyone. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Regards,
Woodguy