QT: How should I play this vulnerable hand?

billy51 · #1 03-06-2005, 05:27 PM

Reads:
Button is loose and passive
MP1 is a little tighter (22/5) but I haven't seen him for very many hands

Ultimate Bet 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 bets, CO folds, Button calls, Hero calls, BB folds, UTG folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Button calls, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets, Button folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

I'm usually a pretty aggressive player, but I decided to play this hand passively. I wanted to use a raise to protect my hand, but at the same time I was worried I was already up against a much stronger hand or a flush or straight draw. I called the flop hoping to check-raise a blank on the turn, but with the combination of flush and straight draws on this board at the turn, I didn't think I had enough pot equity to do so. And by the river, I was pretty sure that unless MP1 was betting a draw I was beat so took a check/call line to show the hand down cheaply. How should I have played this?

Thanks in advance.

flopwell · #2 03-06-2005, 05:36 PM

bet the flop, fold to a raise. don't become a calling station.

ArturiusX · #3 03-06-2005, 05:45 PM

If your scared of that, you shouldn't be in the pot.

I'd bet this out, you most likely have the best hand.

aron · #4 03-06-2005, 06:04 PM

I second betting the flop

-aron

MrWookie47 · #5 03-06-2005, 06:16 PM

I'll vote for betting out here as well, but even check/raising would have been a better plan than calling. You might have been able to get some loner low spades to fold, and you may clean up some queen outs if you're behind a better kicker or an overpair. Plus, you then get MP1 to define his hand. If MP1 is still aggressive after you either bet or check/raise, you can safely fold.

Shillx · #6 03-06-2005, 06:26 PM

I'd bet this out, you most likely have the best hand.

Betting out seems a bit silly now doesn't it?

Brad

SCfuji · #7 03-06-2005, 06:33 PM

i like this line a lot. you won the most if you had the best hand (since mp1 fired every street) and lost the least if mp had you beat.

good hand.

billy51 · #8 03-06-2005, 06:36 PM

Thank you for your comments. For those of you that advocate leading on this flop, I'm curious to hear your responses to my reasoning for not betting the flop.

I probably have the best hand, and if I were against three or fewer opponents, I would have definitly bet. But since I would be betting into 5 opponents, I wanted to invest as little as possible until I felt confident that I wasn't already against a made flush (there is a paragraph on this in HPFAP).

When I initially checked, I was intending to check/raise to protect my hand, but since the bet came from MP1 and not from late position I was a little unsure of how to procede. I wasn't sure how much a raise would protect my hand. Also, the pot was not all that big yet. I am more inclined to throw in a raise to protect my hand when the pot is large. I decided to call and hope for a safe turn card before I became agressive. The problem was that the turn may have filled a straight. Since I was afraid of being behind to a better 10, 2 pair (T9), a made flush, a made straight, not to mention the straight and flush possibilities that could come on the river, I became passive and decided just to show the hand down.

That was my reasoning. I'm certainly not saying it is correct. I am just really trying to improve the way I think through hands, and I would love to hear what you all are thinking on this hand.

GrunchCan · #9 03-06-2005, 06:48 PM

checkraise a late flop bet. if the checkraise whiffs, lead the turn.

sweetjazz · #10 03-06-2005, 06:59 PM

I think check-raising MP's bet is necessary here. You have a chance to get rid of two people who may hold overcards or a gutshot. Plus you're ahead a lot of the time here. MP1 could have JT, A9, QT, 87, a PP below TT, two overcards with a single high spade, etc. etc. He could just be taking an ill-advised stab at the pot with nothing. The fact that button called is pretty irrelevant. He probably has a worse hand, and likely has a single spade or a smaller pair. You were never going to rid the field of spades anyway.

The pot is big enough to protect because you probably have the best hand. If you get played back, then you have to reassess. But go into a shell after someone shows strength, not because you're afraid someone might show strength. (Also, with a 3-suited board, you can get away from your hand a bit easier, since most players will be as scared of the board as you were.)

On a board like this, the people with most pot equity are the highest flush draw (assuming that nobody has 2 spades) and the best made hand (such as TPGK). The flush draw wants people to stick around, because he can only win the pot when he improves and then (mostly) can't be beat. The made hand wants to knock people out and try to get heads up with the draw.

I think you would look at this hand differently if the Jd came on the turn and the Ah on the river.