QQ w/ an Ace on the flop

Ulysses · #1 12-20-2002, 03:56 PM

Loose-aggressive 15-30.

Q [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] in the SB.

3 limp to me. I raise. BB and the rest call. 5 see the flop for 2SB.

5 [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img] 9 [img]/forums/images/icons/club.gif[/img] A [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img]

Any decent Ace would have raised pre-flop. Someone very well could have a bad Ace, though. I'm somewhat at a loss of what to do here. So I bet.

MP (a habitual bluffer) raises. CO calls. His cold-call concerns me a bit. Check-raise the flop? Check-call? Now that I bet it, 3-bet? I'm confused and just call.

Turn 8 [img]/forums/images/icons/spade.gif[/img]

I check. MP checks. CO checks. Crap.

Bet the turn?

River K [img]/forums/images/icons/diamond.gif[/img]

Not the card I wanted to see. I check. MP checks. CO bets. I feel like I need to call here, so I do. MP calls.

Thoughts?

afish · #2 12-20-2002, 11:56 PM

I think you played it fine. On the flop, the first bet might pick up the pot. After the raise and cold call, you have sufficient implied odds to draw for another queen. I'd plan to check fold the turn if a queen did not fall. You, of course, got a free look at the river. There's enough of a chance that you're ahead on the end to warrant a crying call.

Mason Malmuth · #3 12-21-2002, 02:15 AM

Hi U...S:

Just a thought, but you may not want to bet the flop. The reason is that a free card doesn't hurt you that much since you may already be beaten, and there is only one overcard -- the king -- that you should be afraid of. Compare this to TT where there are three overcards that could cause you trouble.

Many people think that this is an automatic bet, and it's not. However, betting isn't necessarily bad. But once it's raised and cold called, you should probably fold.

Best wishes,
Mason

JTG51 · #4 12-21-2002, 02:32 AM

Mason, or anyone else, I've got a question about the line of play you advise here.

The logic of checking because you aren't afraid of overcards makes perfect sense to me, but it seems that it can often make the rest of the hand harder to play. Aren't your opponents going to be much more likely to bluff and semi-bluff at you after you check the flop?

It seems that will put you into check and call mode, which could cost you more than betting and folding if there's any other action. If you decide to check the flop is calling down a reasonable option?

Thanks!

Mason Malmuth · #5 12-21-2002, 05:56 AM

I think that you have answered your question. Against players who don't bluff, you should be more inclined to check. Against players who can't help but bluff, you should check. You may also want to check in a multiway pot and fold to a bet and raise.

On the other hand, if your bet will stop tricky players from bluffing at approximately the right ratio, then be inclined to bet.

MM

snowman · #6 12-21-2002, 02:01 PM

There was no raise preflop by anyone else so AA,AK,KK is most likely not out there. you raised preflop and then led out. I would 3 bet the flop and lead out on the turn. any reasonable player will muck a bad Ace at this point ?????

JTG51 · #7 12-21-2002, 02:42 PM

I've hardly ever seen a typical opponent muck any A for any amount of action after the flop, especially heads up.

JTG51 · #8 12-21-2002, 02:43 PM

Thanks Mason, I guess I had the idea floating around in there somewhere, I just needed a little clarification.

I appreciate it.

Ulysses · #9 12-21-2002, 08:48 PM

CO showed Q [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] K [img]/forums/images/icons/heart.gif[/img] to take it down. MP laughed and flipped over pocket 7s and said "Wow, I guess my read was way off!" Not sure what he was thinking about on the overcall.

I think checking the flop and waiting until the turn would have been a good idea in this situation. I know MP's going to bluff, so rather than let him raise on the flop, I think I should have check-called the flop, then bet out on the turn. As I played it, I think a flop 3-bet and fold to a call or cap by CO was probably the right move. I really didn't put enough thought into how CO would react to MP and what that might mean.

Swiss Cheese · #10 12-22-2002, 01:32 AM

Mason, if you do check with the habitual bluffer and a player in late position with any sort of draw or pair, this is the perfect opportunity for him to raise you out of a pot with a lesser hand. Something he is less likely to do with your initial bet. Is this thinking flawed? When you have a bluffer behind you as in this instance and a player with a clue behind him I believe you open yourself up to this.

Swiss Cheese