DId I Play A/A Wrong?

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
Id put villian on (90% Ad-Kd, 10% 10-10), thus net effect i'm expecting to win half the time with pot odds of 2:1 and therefore definitely call.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is much too narrow a read. You can assume that UTG+1 has a decent hand, since he's pushing into a preflop raiser and reraiser. AdQx, 88, AdJd (or AdJx, or maybe even AxJd), KJ with or without diamonds, QJ, JT, maybe QTs, and so on. Furthermore, you can reasonably expect him to go for a check-raise with the stronger hands in his range since the two people left to act raised and reraised preflop.

He may be trying to put pressure on MP1, squeezing him between the bet and the preflop reraiser. MP1 will be hard-pressed to call without a _very_ strong hand here. If hero folds as well, then UTG+1 has picked up a nice pot. But his bet looks like it's being made for its folding equity. If he really wanted to get all his chips in vs the likely overpair/TPTK, this isn't the most likely line for him. You should expect to see more hands like AdJd, JdTd, QxJd, up through QT or so. Most people will check a set here. (As a side note, this is an argument for betting your good made hands into decent players if you think they have a good 2nd-best hand.)

Also, AdKd is a raise for most people preflop, even in early position. I think 90% is _far_ too high a percentage to give it in your read here.

[ethan]

[ QUOTE ]
"I was hoping my raise pre-flop would push out any weaker hands, which I believe it did"

-You really don't want weaker hands to fold, you want them to call incorrectly. If you make it 300ish, and QJ calls, that's fine, you're making money every time he puts that 300 in.

[/ QUOTE ]

p@t - read and reread Gavin's post. He's done a very good job of explaining what parts of your thinking need work on this hand. I just wanted to reemphasize the quoted point since I just posted in this thread touching on this same concept. There will be times when you get outdrawn, your job is to structure your bets such that the person outdrawing you will have made a mistake in doing so. If they're willing to draw while getting incorrect odds (pot+implied) to do so, you welcome that.

[betgo]

On the flop, you were a 3-1 favorite over QJ. You had to call on the flop.

I bigger reraise preflop might have been better. I would play that way in the kind of tournaments Gavin griffin plays in. It seems like you made the smaller reraise wanting action for your aces. At lower buyin, which this appears to be, encouraging calling stations to call may not be bad. You may get further loose action later in the hand.

Calling the reraise with QJs was bad. The money was too shallow for a suited connector, and the original raiser could have put in a 3rd raise, forcing QJs to fold or call as a big dog.

[Damian UK]

sorry but why is this not interesting? as a new poster here it is for me as I am learning the game.

I take it that you are sooooooooooo experienced that you cant be bothered with this type of post - well if so, why not just ignore it rather than belittling the poster??



[ QUOTE ]
UTG+1 is retarded.

Don't post bad beats unless they are interesting.

This hand isn't interesting.

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[Elem100]

Ok I'll elaborate on why I reckoned that, it wasnt just a stab in the dark...

First off I dont put much chance on QJ Q10 J10 AJ suited or otherwise, I mean, he called a raiser and reraiser (while in a squeeze pre-flop, MP still to act) in a situation where he is almost certainly 3rd best, acting first in the hand post-flop!! Barring any maniacal reads, I don't see how we can consider the above hands to be realistic.

So in my mind that leaves 9-9, 10-10, J-J and AK.

The trouble is that none of these are standard for pushing on the flop into two aggressors, so either way Villian is playing strangely. Normally I'd expect a made hand to push here to hope to get heads up as opposed to 3-way (if he checks a set, and MP1 checks on AKd and Hero bets, then MP1 will have odds to call when Villian does, or if MP1 bets out, and Hero raises, they are both pot committed - so he is right to protect a made hand strongly)...but I dont see how he can be playing a made hand other than 10-10, and, as you say, most people auto-check a set it seems. KK would make sense, but its hard to see him to be cold blooded enough to slowplay through two raises.

So in my mind this leaves Ad-Kd, and a less than optimum play, since he can be pretty sure of a check raise being possible. Clearly there's a strangeness to his play somewhere, and I think the quirkiness of calling with something like AJ preflop given the action, is less likely than the quirkiness of push of Ad-Kd here.

...But then I could be missing something I dunno

Mark

[Toy4x4]

I don't think going all-in pre-flop with A-A early in these tournaments in situations like this is a bad play. UTG+1 is an idiot and would have likely called you anyway. However, my experience is that many of these early tournament fish will call any bet except an All-in preflop. It is possible that you loose some chips by making this play, but it is also possible that you eliminate the chance of someone getting lucky and therefore keep your seat in the tournament.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
UTG+1 is retarded.

Don't post bad beats unless they are interesting.

This hand isn't interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]

This hand has generated some interest, so I suppose it is interesting.

Villain seems like a loose fish who can't fold any reasonable hand, regardless of the action or the board.

Villain has a pair and a gutshot, but the board is high cards with straight and flush possiblities. Hero made a reraise, so he is representing AK, QQ, KK, or AA, which would give him an overpair, TPTK, or a set. The initial raiser is unlikely to have AA or KK, but he probably has high cards or a reasonably high pair. Almost any hand the other players have will give them top pair, an over pair, a set, or two pair, plus they could have straight or flush draws. So the push is likely to be called, amd villain is likely to be atleast the 2-1 dog he was is the game.

[Spladle Master]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
UTG+1 is retarded.

Don't post bad beats unless they are interesting.

This hand isn't interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since when are oyu the board nazi?

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you* [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Spladle Master]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
UTG+1 is retarded.

Don't post bad beats unless they are interesting.

This hand isn't interesting.

[/ QUOTE ]

This wasn't a bad beat post. I was seriously wondering if I played the hand wrong or not. Should I have gone all-in preflop? Should I have not called the all-in from UTG+1 after the flop? I thought this site was about bettering your game. If you don't have any advice about the hand then please keep your comments to yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

You played this hand perfectly.

[ethan]

Your reasoning's pretty good, I think you're just giving other players too much credit. If AKs/TT are the only hands _you_ could have here, that's absolutely fine.

It's not uncommon to find players who won't fold preflop after they limp, even if they don't have implied odds to call and are in with a dominated hand. Big suited cards and offsuit AQ are certainly within the range you'll see people with at the flop. You shouldn't rule out 88, either.