BB options

[Entity]

Hand 1: 28.8145 % [ 00.28 00.01 ] { AKo }
Hand 2: 17.3750 % [ 00.17 00.01 ] { 88-22, ATs-A2s, KTs-K9s, QJs-Q9s, JTs-J8s, T9s-T6s, 98s-96s, 87s-85s, 76s, AJo-A2o, KJo-K9o, QJo-QTo, JTo }
Hand 3: 16.3948 % [ 00.16 00.01 ] { random }
Hand 4: 20.9661 % [ 00.20 00.01 ] { TT-22, AJs-A2s, KTs, QJs-QTs, JTs-J9s, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AJo-A8o, KJo, QJo-QTo, JTo }
Hand 5: 16.4497 % [ 00.16 00.01 ] { random }

[FreakDaddy]

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raise

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Ok I'm curious... why raise here? He's out of position with a hand that will win 16-17% of the time against 4 limpers.

This is a limp in my book. I'd love to hear the reasoning behind this. Please don't just tell me there's positive EV.

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16-17% is WAY off. If your limpers are decent it's around 25%, and if they're loose and bad, it's closer to 30%. It's way more than fair share here.

There isn't much equity difference between AKo and AQo in this instance (it amounts to a 2% difference). For the same reasons that AKo is worth a raise, AQo is -- it's basically equity and pot ownership.

Rob

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You made me go and bust out my HPAP, which is a good thing, but is says limp here. I guess your assumption that the players limping will call with crap and so you're probably right that EV is higher than 17%. I wouldn't raise this playing a 2/4 or higher table, even with a couple loose/passives.

[Entity]

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raise

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Ok I'm curious... why raise here? He's out of position with a hand that will win 16-17% of the time against 4 limpers.

This is a limp in my book. I'd love to hear the reasoning behind this. Please don't just tell me there's positive EV.

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16-17% is WAY off. If your limpers are decent it's around 25%, and if they're loose and bad, it's closer to 30%. It's way more than fair share here.

There isn't much equity difference between AKo and AQo in this instance (it amounts to a 2% difference). For the same reasons that AKo is worth a raise, AQo is -- it's basically equity and pot ownership.

Rob

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You made me go and bust out my HPAP, which is a good thing, but is says limp here. I guess your assumption that the players limping will call with crap and so you're probably right that EV is higher than 17%. I wouldn't raise this playing a 2/4 or higher table, even with a couple loose/passives.

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It's an easy raise at 2/4 and 3/6. I haven't played higher so I can't speak for those.

HEPFAP isn't a big advocate of raising offsuit broadways, and many people disagree. The classic question is AJo in LP after loose limpers; most think it's worth a raise, but HEPFAP doesn't.

Keep in mind, HEPFAP also advocates not raising JJ and TT from the blinds in many instances. It was not written for play in games like today's.

Rob

[Entity]

I will say that if you feel the desire to autobet any flop after you raised PF, then raising PF with this hand is a mistake; if that's the case, however, you've got bigger issues to worry about.

Rob

[dangerous_badman]

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You made me go and bust out my HPAP, which is a good thing, but is says limp here. I guess your assumption that the players limping will call with crap and so you're probably right that EV is higher than 17%. I wouldn't raise this playing a 2/4 or higher table, even with a couple loose/passives.

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At the microlimits (and often higher) your opponents' most likely holdings are crap that you utterly pwn like J4s and A7o. Any hand that is substantially ahead of yours at this point (AK, AA-QQ) would already have let you know. Your hand has a considerable equity edge against the field, which you should exploit.

HPFAP deals with games that play a lot tougher than your average online microlimit affair, where checking AQ here may be wiser. For what it's worth, I'm raising this here 100% of the time at 2/4 and 3/6.

[FreakDaddy]

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It's an easy raise at 2/4 and 3/6. I haven't played higher so I can't speak for those.

HEPFAP isn't a big advocate of raising offsuit broadways, and many people disagree. The classic question is AJo in LP after loose limpers; most think it's worth a raise, but HEPFAP doesn't.

Keep in mind, HEPFAP also advocates not raising JJ and TT from the blinds in many instances. It was not written for play in games like today's.

Rob

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Well, thanks for the info. You gave me something to chew on. I'm assuming your running your sim on Poker stove? The EV isn't taking into consideration position if so. I think that brings down the EV of this hand considerably, BUT I still think your points are valid. Most of these players are probably holding nominal cards. That being the case getting your value bets in now of course is a good play.

On a ragged flop with all under cards how would you play this?

[Entity]

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It's an easy raise at 2/4 and 3/6. I haven't played higher so I can't speak for those.

HEPFAP isn't a big advocate of raising offsuit broadways, and many people disagree. The classic question is AJo in LP after loose limpers; most think it's worth a raise, but HEPFAP doesn't.

Keep in mind, HEPFAP also advocates not raising JJ and TT from the blinds in many instances. It was not written for play in games like today's.

Rob

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Well, thanks for the info. You gave me something to chew on. I'm assuming your running your sim on Poker stove? The EV isn't taking into consideration position if so. I think that brings down the EV of this hand considerably, BUT I still think your points are valid. Most of these players are probably holding nominal cards. That being the case getting your value bets in now of course is a good play.

On a ragged flop with all under cards how would you play this?

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It really depends on the flop, who bets, and what I know about them. Often check-calling, sometimes checkraising, and occasionally check-folding. It isn't any different from how you'd play AK.

BTW, yes, I ran it on pokerstove, and that's an equity sim, not an EV sim. Position makes a huge difference, but you are going to have a hard time making up the .5BB (.25x4SB) postflop when you check.

Rob