return to low limit

[nicky g]

playing a litle micro-limit on the internet, and interested in responses to the following hand:

game is v loose passive befoer the flop; very changeable after the flop. call in MP with j 10 off, after a few other callers. 6 see the flop for one bet. flop A J 10, with two hearts. Aggressive player in EP bets, one call, i raise. folded back to EP who three bets. i am pretty sure i am ahead and cap. limper has called us all the way. turn: another ace (not a heart). yuk. EP bets out again limper calls, i fold.

What do people think? Results to follow.

[KOJAK]

People think you should have folded pre-flop; I am one of those people.

[JAA]

Fold JT in MP in a loose passive game? I wouldn't. JT plays very well in multiway pots, and the fact that the game is loose/passive means you will be seeing the flop with an average of 5+ callers for no raise. This is an ideal sitaution to be playing JT.

-JAA

[JAA]

Hey Nicky....

I think you played it perfectly.
a.) Good limp preflop knowing a raise is unlikely and you will be getting 5+ people in with you.
b.)On the flop, charging all the Axs/flush draws/gutshots the maximum is great.
c.) I like the laydown on the turn. I put limper on hearts and EP on an Ace, as I'm sure you did. Good example of getting a read then acting on it.

Too bad you couldn't keep the lead...

-JAA

[butters]

after reading other posts on this forum, i've learned to fold j10o from mid position.

[Bob T.]

I disagree, I think that in this situation, I would happily play JT suited. If you are going to be playing a hand where you will be drawing, you may as well play hands that have a lot of draws. JT off isn't that good a hand to be playing in mid position, and even on loose passive tables, you sometimes have to face raises from behind you, it sometimes seems that they come every time you limp with something like this.

Good Luck,
Play Well,

Bob T.

[bernie]

JTo is playable here. granted, it's tougher to play since many get tied to a hand if they hit. the post flop texture can also help with the decision. if they all limp but then fold when action breaks out. another factor to consider when adjusting preflop hands. the raise behind you isnt likely. sure it's possible, but unlikely. and yes, id much, much prefer suited, BUT if you go offsuit, you have to know when to release your hand. it looks like you know from this example. just remember to be careful when your playing them.

many others on your table wouldve played farther and lost. so in that respect, you made chips on the hand against the others who would chase. though a call would be close on the turn, since your getting close to the 10.5-1 to call, youre getting 9.5-1. and your call closes the action. but you may also be drawing dead, so youd want a little more to make this call.

good fold....

b

[bad beetz]

The limper calling makes this a very easy fold. There's no hand that three bets the flop that doesn't beat you on the turn, except for somebody pumping his flush draw on the flop. Unfortunately, with the combined probabilities of you already being behind, and the possibility of the flush getting there (which I'm assuming the limper is on) means you have to fold anyway.

unfortunate turn card, but that's poker

[JAA]

I had a feeling someone was going to say "well, if it was sooted..." I think a lot of people, on this forum especially, overestimate the increase in value a hand has by being suited/offsuit. You will flop a flush or four-flush about 1 out of 10 times. The other 9 times your cards might as well be offsuit. Obviously I would prefer the JT to be suited in this situation, but I think you're losing too much by mucking JTo in this situation.

Guess we'll just agree to disagree :-) - JAA

[Dynasty]

JT plays very well in multiway pots

JTo does not play very well in multi-way pots. This is common misconception. It surprises me that so many people will say AKo does not play well multi-way but they love JTo. The additional 3 straights you can make with JTo compared to AKo is not much.

JTo is a hand which is going to be dominated badly in multi-way pots. You are much more likely to flop a second best hand and pay off somebody else then you are to make the best hand. Playing it out of position just makes things worse.

If you're going to play JTo, play it the cutoff or on the button. Make sure you have the best position so that you can play the hand optimally post-flop.