Standard, Weak, or Otherwise?

JAA · #1 03-02-2005, 02:47 AM

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
4 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, Villain calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
Villain checks, BB checks, Hero bets, Button calls, Villain calls, BB folds.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Villain checks, Hero bets, Button calls, Villain raises, Hero folds, Button calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Villain bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

Results in white below: 
Villain has Tc 5c (two pair, tens and sixes).
Button has 9h Th (two pair, tens and sixes).
Outcome: Button wins 6.25 BB. Villain wins 6.25 BB. 

Anyone play this differently? I'll reserve my thoughts on the hand for after I get some responses.

Comments much appreciated - Jags

slavic · #2 03-02-2005, 03:23 AM

What do we know about villan other than the Villan is refered to as villan? If he's fairly straight forward folding isn't bad, but I constantly run into fairly Laggy play in the blinds and I tend to showdown most large pairs. I need to review this though, it's quite possible it's not longterm profitable but I doubt it.

BTW don't post the results with the hand. It just jades our view of things.

steveyz · #3 03-02-2005, 03:39 AM

No read on villian? I'd call down the turn check-raise here against a lot of the time. You will be show a T or a pure bluff often enough.

geormiet · #4 03-02-2005, 03:41 AM

This is a pretty clear turn fold for me.
Had you seen your opponents cards, you would have known that you had 5 outs, making a call correct.

But of course most of the time you will be up against hands like QT, KQ, AQ, or a set. Checkraising a pf raiser and a caller on the turn when a blank falls is usually for value since the SB has little chance of folding both of you.

Unless of course there is some deeper psychology going on, which in this hand doesn't seem to be the case.

Hattifnatt · #5 03-02-2005, 05:58 AM

Pretty clear fold on the turn with the button still in the hand.

bobbyi · #6 03-02-2005, 06:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I constantly run into fairly Laggy play in the blinds

[/ QUOTE ]
Even with a third player trapped in the middle as we have here? If the button had folded on the flop, I would certainly agree that a turn check-raise from the blind is suspect, but are people in the Party 15/30 really so laggy that you are often getting check-raised with the button there?

JAA · #7 03-02-2005, 01:37 PM

Slavic...

I should have mentioned in the original post that I had no read/stats on the villain. I agree that blind defenders on Party can be laggy/tricky postflop, but even with a caller in between? For me, that was really what made this a fold vs. a calldown.

- Jags

P.S. Duly noted about not posting the results.

JAA · #8 03-02-2005, 01:39 PM

Thanks for all the responses.

My basic thought process was if the button weren't in the hand I would probably have to call down, as I agree with those of you who noted that people can be laggy/tricky from the blinds heads up. But, with the caller in between, I gave him credit for a pretty good hand (which he actually had, even though I had enough outs to justify a call).

When someone checkraises two players, especially on Party when they know they will get called in at least one place, I take that as a big sign of strength unless I have information to the contrary i.e. the villain is a maniac or aggressive bluffer.

- Jags