Give me a frop line - Page 3

Redd · #21 03-02-2005, 01:54 AM

While I could definitely have the best hand here, it's vulnerable to any overcards, so I think protection is priority one.

If everyone's passive except the aggressive PF3B, IMO the best way to protect is to check, intending to raise and trap everyone with two. Given the other players and PF action, the bettor will likely be the button.

If the button checks behind as Shillx mentioned might happen, I'd likely come out swinging on the turn.

What I'm more worried about is UTG+1 betting his 9, and the button raising. This really sucks because button could be raising a winning (big PP) or losing (flush draw) hand, and there's no way to tell which it is. If this happens, I'm not willing to let my overpair go yet, but I don't really know what to do..since I don't want go give up, and I don't think I'll fold anyone with a 3-bet, I guess I'd call 2 here and reevaluate on the turn? All three choices feel wrong in this situation.

Firefly · #22 03-02-2005, 02:00 AM

Check, with the intention of raising 1-bet from anywhere. Call if three-bet and fold-UI.
I'd bet any non-ace card on the turn.

DeathDonkey · #23 03-02-2005, 02:13 AM

I know it makes more sense this way but I think "frop plan" is far superior to "frop pran". That's just weird.

-DeathDonkey

car ramrod · #24 03-02-2005, 11:16 AM

check raise, I think

car ramrod · #25 03-02-2005, 11:19 AM

depending on what button does, I raise. If button raises before me, then I'll just call.

car ramrod · #26 03-02-2005, 11:23 AM

I agree, I voted, check raise flop. Now say utg1 bets, button raises, do I call two cold hope to get some callers for my turned set, or do I raise to get more info from button. His raise could still be just AK, I hate to just assume he has a big pp b/c he raised utg1. So I guess I would 3 bet. How am I doing.

car ramrod · #27 03-02-2005, 11:29 AM

question for sfer.
You are seen as tight on this table, and villian is tight and aggro, so if you check, button bets, you raise. Based on your reads, if he 3 bets you, can you assume he has a big pp? and if he just calls do you assume over cards.
Or is this thinking too simple?

SeeWillie · #28 03-02-2005, 12:28 PM

Check with intention to c/r button's bet. Fold if it comes back facing 2. Try to get HU by making field face 2 with 3.25:1 (7.5:2) pot odds. If the field folds, call a 3bet from button hoping for a spade or a T on the turn.

Thought about waiting to checkraise a safe turn card, but we are confident button will bet the flop, so we call, field calls, and if we try the checkraise on the turn (assuming checked thru to button who bets) we are giving the field about 5.5:1, if my math holds up, and that may be giving them correct odds to see the river.

If turn is safe card, lead out. Fold to a raise or call down?

One questions I have - what is safe if you are NOT heads up? Any spade is bad, you have a redraw but 5th-nut frush is not comforting. Broadways are clearly not safe. 9 is terrible, right? What about pairing the 3 or 4 - do we think someone is hanging around with one of those cards, maybe A3s or A4s? Non-spade 5, 6, 7, 8 are good, but raise the spectre of a str8. My head is spinning. TT is difficult for me.

kenberman · #29 03-02-2005, 02:50 PM

check, with the hope of c/r the button, leaving the field calling 2 cold.

you want to get rid of ugly overcard outs that the passive players may hold, and get it HU with the button, who you probably have beat.

Lucena · #30 03-02-2005, 02:52 PM

Well I guess I'll be the oddball here. I truly think as hero that I have the better hand here. Now I want to see if I do or not during the cheap betting rounds. I bet out. If called then I am probably betting through the next rounds until somebody stands up to me. If the villian raises I would pop a raise back at him. If he raises back I will call and see the turn and then get out most likely.

Flame away.