TT late position, suggestions

hiflyer51 · #1 03-02-2005, 12:05 PM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, UTG caps, UTG+1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (17.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 calls, MP2 folds, Hero raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (11.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG bets, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls.

River: (13.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15.75 BB

I thought utg had big pair or AKs when he 4 bet pf. However he only called my raise on flop. The utg bet out on turn, I picked up open ended str draw, probably I should have raised there, and could have gotten a free show down if I miss the draw.

chief444 · #2 03-02-2005, 12:10 PM

I would call the flop and, depending on UTG, consider raising the turn with the intention of checking the river through unimproved. Whatever the turn action though I don't think the flop raise is a good idea.

mack848 · #3 03-02-2005, 12:11 PM

Without a read on opponent, I play the same. I think that you are very probably behind once he bets the turn, but you have some outs and the pot is decent. I think you are ahead more than 7% of the time on the river, so need to call.

brettbrettr · #4 03-02-2005, 12:15 PM

I think you're behind on the turn, but you can't fold having picked up the draw. What does this do to my river decision? Sure, its one bet in a big pot, but I still think you're behind here. QQ/KK I'd say.

einbert · #5 03-02-2005, 12:20 PM

I don't like raising the turn. If you get 3 bet you are going to be stuck in the position of putting 3BB into this pot with the worst hand.

I am not sure about the flop. I think with our position it is okay to just call and make sure one bet goes in on each street-if UTG is going crazy with AK we don't really want to slow him down, and unless that is the case he has us beat. At 18.5-1 though we have to draw to our set+BDSD so we can't fold to the first bet or to the three-bet.

I think the river call is close but I like it considering the pot size and the semi-strange betting pattern of your opponent.

hiflyer51 · #6 03-02-2005, 02:16 PM

I thought raising the flop would clarify the situation a little. Since he didnt reraise I ruled out AA and KK, and maybe put him on AK or smaller pair. However, when he bet out again on the turn, I was was fairly certain I was probably beat, but I picked up 8 outs for the straight, and my 2 J outs could be good too.

MaxPower · #7 03-02-2005, 02:31 PM

I can't really argue with your play much. Your opponent took a weird line if he did have a big pair. Its tough to say what he might have since you have no read.

I do like the idea of raising the turn if you can be fairly sure you won't get 3-bet.

I wouldn't be suprised if your opponent had AK AQ, or AJ of spades.

There is no way you can fold at any point in this hand.

crunchy1 · #8 03-02-2005, 02:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like raising the turn. If you get 3 bet you are going to be stuck in the position of putting 3BB into this pot with the worst hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't expect a 3-bet on the turn. The 8 is a scary a card for UTG.

Tough w/o reads....
To the OP - what was your read of these players??

brettbrettr · #9 03-02-2005, 02:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
There is no way you can fold at any point in this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the turn is a total blank and villan bets into him what do you think then?

(I suspect I'm losing money calling down, so I ask.)

hiflyer51 · #10 03-02-2005, 10:30 PM

If I had a read on him at the time, I don't remember what it was. This hand is from awhile back, prior to my using GT+. On checking PT stats I see that he is(TPP)18%/3%pfr/ 1.5 agression for 270 hands.

When he bet the turn I was assuming that he probably had a big pair, and was hoping for the str outs to come in on the rvr.