good pre-flop fold, right? (warning: sort of a whining thread)

[elitegimp]

So Villian in this hand is UTG+1, who is down to 4 BB (after the raise). I folded because it seemed like the implied odds weren't there... I could likely get the villian to toss all his chips in if I hit my set, but the way the table played made it seem likely that this was gonna be 3-way at the flop if I called (with no reads on MP1, as he just sat down... though he was willing to post from MP1). Solid fold, or is getting 2.5ish:1 immediate odds, and slightly higher implied odds make this worth calling?

For what it's worth:
* MP1 was 58.33/4.17/0.34 through 24 hands (those stats are after the fact, I think this was within 5 hands of him leaving the table)
* The table was fairly loose, but there was only one player who was cold-calling raises with lousy cards... hence the expectation of folds behind me


Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $0.5.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+2 raises</font>, MP1 (poster) calls, MP2 folds, Hero folds

[Shillx]

I would have folded as well. Whenever you look to take a flop with a hand that thrives on implied odds, you need to take a look at how deep the stacks are. If people in the hand are getting short, it should turn some otherwise close calls into folds.

Brad

As a side note, if you see someone raise on a short stack, you should also be quick to isolate with a hand that has negative implied odds. So if someone open raises and is almost all-in, I might make it 3-bets with a hand like A6o if I can't get all-in with him on the flop (with dead blind money in the pot). This of course assumes that the rake doesn't offset the blind money too much. So if the rake is $1 but there is $3 in blind money out there it would probably be worth it.

[shadow29]

I fold this every time.

[elitegimp]

[ QUOTE ]
I would have folded as well.

[snip]

As a side note, if you see someone raise on a short stack, you should also be quick to isolate with a hand that has negative implied odds. So if someone open raises and is almost all-in, I might make it 3-bets with a hand like A6o if I can't get all-in with him on the flop (with dead blind money in the pot). This of course assumes that the rake doesn't offset the blind money too much. So if the rake is $1 but there is $3 in blind money out there it would probably be worth it.

[/ QUOTE ]

this seems somewhat contradictory, would you mind elaborating? The problem I'm having is that A6o and 44 are both likely to be 50-50ish against what is likely a non-paired random hand (A6 being 60-40 to two cards between an A and 6, but much worse against Ax for x&gt;6)... so if I could isolate the raiser I'd be getting 4.75:4 [assuming he gets all-in, the blinds are dead money, no rake, yadda yadda yadda). So in this case, why does it matter which hand I have?

edit: or are you saying you would have 3-bet if the poster hadn't called the raise?

[Shillx]

[ QUOTE ]
edit: or are you saying you would have 3-bet if the poster hadn't called the raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah. I wasn't really referring to this hand because 4 BB is a decent amount of money to put in with A6o. I was just talking about in general for those who might be reading your post.

Brad