AA hand for review

[Rob]

it was suggested i move these to this forum and post them hand-by-hand, so here they are.

hi everyone. i've been a lurker for a few months but just worked up the courage to post. i started playing in january, and have played almost exclusively online. at first i got killed at paradise, but after i decided to really study and try to improve (and try other sites), i did much better.

now, however, i think i'm playing like a total maniac. my play has gotten so out-of-control that i'm really losing confidence. i'm going to post a few hands that i hope reflect some good stuff and some idiocy. any comments would be appreciated.

hand one: (3/6 online)
UTG limps, i raise MP w/AsAh. all fold to BB who calls, limper calls.

flop: 4d 3c 9d. BB checks, limper checks, i check.
this probably was a mistake. str8 and flush draws are possible and i need them to pay. my thinking was, if no draw gets there on the turn, one of them will probably take a shot at the pot, either by betting or c/r'ing me with a very likely worse hand.

turn: 4d 3c 9d (8c)
great, two flush draws now. checked to me, i bet, BB c'rs, limped folds, i call. good so far. i don't think he has anything. should i 3-bet? if he really has nothing i don't want him to fold, so i don't think so.

river: 4d 3c 9d 8c (Jc)
BB bets out, i still don't think he has it, i call.

he has Qs Kh, a stone-cold bluff. i win, obviously.

comments?

[Homer]

Flop: I would bet since there is a flush draw and straight draw on board. If the flush/straight comes on the turn, it will be easier to tell if someone has it since you bet the flop. Any aggression shown by other players on the turn is likely because their drawing hand got there. Some might argue that you should check it through on the flop and raise when bet into on the turn, assuming a blank comes. This way you make the draws pay two big bets to see the river card, and you can get away if a scary card comes. I don't like this move because it can lead to confusion. A bet on the turn from another player, even when a scare card comes, could mean anything, since no one showed the initiative to bet on the flop. You are left playing the rest of the hand in the dark.

Turn: Since you checked the flop, BB could be checkraising you with close to nothing, as he probably thinks you were going for a steal with your unpaired overcards. You can either three-bet it now, or raise when bet into on the river (having position is sweet...). I would opt for a three-bet now, since you are more likely to get a call from a draw or some garbage now, whereas you will not be able to on the river.

River: Given that you checked the flop and called the checkraise on the turn, you need to raise the river here, as BB is only betting into you because you seem weak. There is a tremendous chance that your hand is best. There is no reason to think that BB has two pair, trips, or a flush (runner-runner).

In summary, you missed out on quite a few bets with your AA, in my opinion. You didn't show enough aggression with a hand that is most likely best. You can't fear the draws all the time.

Good luck...

-- Homer

[Hammuh]

A word I just made up. I can't give you advice on the hand cuz I am very rusty (haven't played much or posted in months) and don't think I am good enough to give advice.

I can, however, give advice on getting advice (notwithstanding the fact that I totally agree with Homer and your lack of aggression on this hand).

Your comment, <font color="blue"> i think i'm playing like a total maniac. my play has gotten so out-of-control that i'm really losing confidence </font color> reminded me of something I went through about 10 months ago, which was about 9 months into my learning the game. After reading these boards, I realized I was ultraweak tight, and started to get more and more and more aggressive. I was semibluffing like a madman, and trying to pull all sorts of wacky plays. As you have hopefully learned from reading this board, all sortsa wacky plays should be attempted very very rarely at low limits. My bankroll took an ENORMOUS hit from this and I was very unhappy with my progress.

I was a little uncomfortable with taking up the board's time with every little error in judgment. So, I took a chance and emailed directly a person on the board whose judgment I respected. Over the next month, he was kind enough to maintain a correspondence with me to get me through the rough spots. That correspondence helped me immeasurably.

What's the point of all this?
A. Keep posting and you'll get better
B. Develop a correspondence with someone you respect (if that someone is willing to help you), be TOTALLY honest in your description of your play, and you will improve.

Longwindedly,

Hammuh

[Eric P]

"should i three bet the turn?"
Yes YES YES. Not three betting here is the worst idea you could have except for folding. If he has absolutly nothing you probably do want him to fold becuase he probably won't call on the river with nothing, and he probably won't be it either. If he has a gut shot, you need to make him pay. You have the best hand here for sure. Exacatly waht you thought happened, did happen. You said "one will probably try and buy it by check-raising" What's the point of being right with a good read if you don't play it. If he picked up a flush draw he will call the third bet anyways. The point is that unless he slowplayed his set (which he probably didn't, because if he tried to do it on the flop, he most likely would have led the turn for fear of getting nothing) you absolutly have the best hand. If he call the third bet just because he has two over cards and he hits one of them, you get to pick up another extra bet there.
basically the only way you miss a bet is if he folds to the third bet, whihc in my opinion he won't, if you get lucky he will re-raise you, hoping you were trying to defend your steal. And after you just call the turn you have to rasie that river, I know you didn't miss one this time, but you have to be raising the river with AA on that board.

[Ed Miller]

I would definitely bet the flop here... in an unraised pot, slowplaying here is more appropriate. Betting here also lays cover for when you bet with zilch in this situation.

i don't think he has anything. should i 3-bet? if he really has nothing i don't want him to fold, so i don't think so.

In poker, "nothing" is very relative. There is nothing with zero outs (as he had), and then there is nothing with 15 outs. In this situation, given the cards he had and the fact that he was drawing dead against you on the turn, then just calling him and letting him bluff at you on the river was correct. However, if he had picked up the flush draw (which, IMO, is quite likely here) then 3-betting is probably correct because he now has odds to call with his flush draw... and he might not bluff into you again on the river. You should do the thing that is most likely to cause your opponent to make a mistake here.

[Ed Miller]

Given that you checked the flop and called the checkraise on the turn, you need to raise the river here, as BB is only betting into you because you seem weak.

I disagree. His opponent's turn checkraise represents a hand that beats an overpair. I agree that, given the situation, that the checkraise was much more likely to be a bluff than in a normal situation. However, you should call bluffs... not raise them.

Furthermore, you were hoping that he was just bluffing at you when he picked up the flush draw on the turn. Now the flush draw gets there on the river...

[Rob]

thanks everyone for the input. i think you all are correct. something else i've noticed about my play is that i think i'm too aggressive with crap (when i think i have to get the other guy to fold to win, which rarely happens), and too passive when i have a good hand (i wonder just how good it really is).
the comment about the relativitity of "nothing" is right on. too often i bluff with zero outs nothing. maybe i need to start bluffing with &gt;0 outs nothing.

thanks again, rob