The rake

[7n7]

It's been said that the vast majority of players can't even beat the rake at the casino.

Could someone please expand on that statement and perhaps provide a mathematical expample of what that actually means?

[Voltron87]

Well if there is less money on the table than at the beginning of the night, ie 14000 to be split up among players instead of 15000... not that hard to figure out.

[csuf_gambler]

"in life, woman are the fuking rake"

[The Armchair]

Let's say you play exclusively 4/8. You get, optimistically, 50 hands per hour dealt and have an average return of 2 BB/hr.

Let's also assume that each pot is greater than or equal to $40 before the rake. At this level, many casinos take 10% of out each pot, with a cap of $4 raked.

In a typical hour, the casino therefore makes $4*50=200 dollars, or about 25 big bets. You also make 2 big bets (see above). Those 27 big bets have to come from somewhere, and the "somewhere" is the other players. Nine other players = -3 BB per player, per hour (other than you).

Of course, we've all seen the typical chip-hemmoraging fish who dumps a full 25 BB buy-in in under 2.5 hours. Let's factor him into the math. at -9 BB/hr.

To recap:
Rake -- +25
You -- +2
Fish -- -9
Total: +18

There are now eight players unaccounted for. They are each at -2 BB/hr. Let's assume they are all of equal skill; that is, each of them is giving up 2 big bets per hour, no more and no less.

But the rake, distributed evenly to each of the 10 players, is 2.5BB/hr. Therefore, these players are actually +.5BB/hr in the same game if rake-free. But they're negative: they "can't even beat the rake."

[Al_Capone_Junior]

I suggest you read this essay...

http://www.thepokerforum.com/rakeandtime.htm

al

[canis582]

[ QUOTE ]
I suggest you read this essay...

http://www.thepokerforum.com/rakeandtime.htm

al

[/ QUOTE ]

That essay really hates dead dropping. I'd think taking an average of 3 bucks per orbit isnt that bad, it punishes tight players.

[DeepCroak]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I suggest you read this essay...

http://www.thepokerforum.com/rakeandtime.htm

al

[/ QUOTE ]

That essay really hates dead dropping. I'd think taking an average of 3 bucks per orbit isnt that bad, it punishes tight players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where I play locally (Bay 101) they recently changed from a $3 button drop (at least it was live) to a $4/pot fixed rake (only $1 if no flop, but that rarely happens at 3/6 where I play). I'm a tight player, and it seems to me that my stack size is varying less now, and my results are better. Granted I haven't played *that* much since the switch, and maybe (hopefully!) my game is improving, but anecdotaly, my experience seems to support the theory of the button drop punishing us tight players.

Just say no to the drop!

[TStoneMBD]

if youre comparing time vs rake, time punishes the tight players while rake rewards them.