Too loose?

Shang Chou · #1 02-28-2005, 01:30 AM

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
5 folds, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, Button calls, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Button folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (7.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

River: (9.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

Shang Chou · #2 02-28-2005, 01:33 AM

Advice on all streets is appreciated.

How terrible is raising Q9suited from the hijack seat? I woulda done this from the button or cutoff seat for sure. How much worse can it be doing it from the hijack seat when its folded around to me?

How often will I be shown AK or AQ vs 1010, JJ, QQ, KK, AA? My opponent was a pretty TAGgy player who was 21/10 vpip/pfr and seemed reasonably good.

Harv72b · #3 02-28-2005, 01:48 AM

Q9s is an easy muck for me from MP3 on 2/4, although I don't think the raise is bad if you have a bunch of tight players behind you. I might be more apt to try this move on 3/6, but even then I think I'd just let it go.

I think I would've led the turn as well on this hand...if you get raised again by CO, you can fold your hand fairly easily. If you are just called, probably check/call the blank river (giving AK/AQ a chance to bluff).

einbert · #4 02-28-2005, 04:31 AM

PF is good on a tight table, at 3/6 this is an autoraise for me unless some very LPP player is between me and the BB.

I'm not so sure about the turn check, depends on how aggro CO is. Can you fold to a turn raise here? I think you could. I think I would bet/fold the turn and bet/fold the river. The way you played it overcards or a spade draw could take a free card on the turn. Or you could 3-bet the flop and check/fold the turn UI if capped. I think the way you played this on the turn is too passive, but if CO is aggro enough to always bet this turn and possibly blluff-raise you on the river, this is a good line.

jt1 · #5 02-28-2005, 04:37 AM

it's an autoraise for me. I'd check raise the flop

ucfryan · #6 02-28-2005, 05:36 AM

Not sure about preflop, but I'm definately c/ring the flop.

mosta · #7 02-28-2005, 12:42 PM

it is a bit over the loose side PF. but it's right to do if your image is right and the opponents are right (probably most of the time in this game). You ask, if it's pretty clearly a raise from the button how can one seat or two seats make that much difference? Well, there are twice as many players who could take position on you, as opposed to being in CO. the difference is significant.

your line post flop is reasonable, and there's not a definitive way to play the hand. you want to show it down and extract value, not fold, you don't want to give free cards to overs, but you also don't want to push a pile of chips over to an overpair. You can't do all of theses things perfectly at the same time. Which compromise you pick, depends on how you think you can exploit this player in some of the scenarios. Your line is best if the guy is aggressive enough to play overs this way on the flop and turn. But then you should probably bet the river. That keeps him from checking behind, and hopefully that stopping bet will scare him into thinking you might hvae spiked a smaller pair so he won't raise a lot of his better hands. you will probably want to fold to a river raise. not knowing the opponent, how I would picture the hand going down is bet/3-bet the flop and lead the turn. the problem here is you probably have to lay down to a turn raise, and you didn't want to fold this hand. check-raising the flop is also possible. no one line is right. each one is designed to exploit some misplay of his--an over aggression, or undeaggression, etc. pick the right one for the opponent, and for your image right then.

emil3000 · #8 02-28-2005, 12:52 PM

Checkraise the flop. You don't know anything more about his hand now, you must call it down.
In the games I play in it is an auto-raise preflop, not sure about 2/4.

27offsooot · #9 02-28-2005, 01:18 PM

PF: table dependent

I actually like your line on this hand post-flop.

First, i think that a flop c/r is a very bad idea. I like the flop lead with the button still around, but would not lead if this were HU. I suppose u can lead into him on the turn if u are prepared to fold to a river bet when he raises the turn and u do not improve. I think that I prefer a check-call on the turn though. On the river, I want to see a showdown so I think i check-call here. I can see betting and folding to a raise, but I hate to fold in such a large pot. Also, he may not call with unimproved overs enough to make betting the river optimal but will take a final shot at bluffing with them.

mosta · #10 02-28-2005, 02:36 PM

by the time I posted I forgot about the third player in on the flop. that's the best reason for leading the flop, I think. you want him to get raised out. checkraising the button can tie in the third player and your hand is too vulnerable.

now if it were heads up v. the button on the flop, I still might lead with the intention of three-betting. comparing this to check-raising, you gain and lose bets and half bets depending on whether he is going to fold to your turn bet, and whether you are behind the whole way. it may be a toss up, but I'm not sure and have to go.