Can someone please explain the concern....

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
"It is not about who has the advantage. It is about who is abiding by the agreed rules of play that we all signed when we registered for the site."

Recall (if old enough) Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (or rent it). Butch is challenged to a knife fight for control of his gang. Butch - "Now before we start I just wanna go over the rules..." Opponent - "RULES!?!...in a knife fight?!" And then Butch low blows him and all ends well.

Poker is EXACTLY the same. I want every single cent you have and I will do whatever I can to get them while I maintain control of my bankroll. That means keeping the site from taking my funds. Whatever it takes, and I'll be the judge of that.

[/ QUOTE ]

We're not disagreeing, I don't think. You're just saying you don't care about ethics. That's up to you.

I assume you must think collusion is fair game as well?

eastbay

[FlFishOn]

Collusion is a reality. How do you combat it?

One might choose to spend a small fraction of one's playing time colluding in order to level the playing field.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
Collusion is a reality. How do you combat it?

One might choose to spend a small fraction of one's playing time colluding in order to level the playing field.

[/ QUOTE ]

This line of thought leads weak men to all manner of crimes.

eastbaycrates

[FlFishOn]

You didn't answer the question.

Idealism is cheap.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
You didn't answer the question.

Idealism is cheap.

[/ QUOTE ]

It seemed rhetorical as you answered it yourself.

I'm not sure collusion is a significant problem as it is fairly easy to detect by the sites.

Bottom line is I don't need to counter it, especially by stooping to a cheater's level, because I make plenty of money anyway.

My statement is not particularly idealistic. It is pragmatic. By stooping to the cheater's level, you've contributed to the problem, which then contributes to the perception that one must cheat because everybody else does, which leads to... you get the idea. That's a purely selfish argument for not colluding. That's an idea you can relate to.

eastbay

[Cheeseweasel]

Below is an excerpt from Party Poker's Terms and Conditions of Use:

6. Artificial Intelligence.
We are committed to detecting and preventing software programs which are designed to enable artificial intelligence (non-human) to play on our site. Such programs are often designed to send information about cards, dice or players to an external program. Information sent to an outside program is not permitted. The company will take measures to prevent and detect the use of such programs using methods including but not limited to screen scraping or reading the list of currently running programs on a player’s computer. [Emphasis added]

This would appear to include programs and services such as Online Poker Inspector, Paragon Poker Pal, Pokertracker, Poker Prophecy, and any other program or service that uses any type of datamining.

If you want to be as pure as the driven snow, you'd better get out your pencil and paper and start taking your own notes.

[FlFishOn]

"Bottom line is I don't need to counter it,"

Allow me to translate into English: You're willing to allow the cheats to steal from you without penalty.

If you're OK with that then fine n dandy. Bend over. Your idealism is intact, BR is slightly damaged.

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]

If you want to be as pure as the driven snow, you'd better get out your pencil and paper and start taking your own notes.

[/ QUOTE ]

This has been clarified in writing. Information sent post-facto to programs for analysis or record keeping is not against the TOS. Party not only says this, but condones it in deed by cooperating with the authors of PT.

Nice try though.

Note that I acknowledge a gray area is opened by the use of live game hand slurping and add-ons like PlayerView and GameTime+.

eastbay

[eastbay]

[ QUOTE ]
"Bottom line is I don't need to counter it,"

Allow me to translate into English: You're willing to allow the cheats to steal from you without penalty.

If you're OK with that then fine n dandy. Bend over. Your idealism is intact, BR is slightly damaged.

[/ QUOTE ]

Weighed against the potential downside of engaging in cheating myself, such as contributing to the cheating "arms race", possible banning and bankroll confiscation, I am choosing the clearly superior of two non-perfect scenarios. Such is life.

And my bankroll is just fine, thank you.

eastbay

[FlFishOn]

Eastbay, thanks for the interchange.

For the record, I don't collude but do not rule it out either as a reasonable counter-measure if I suspect my loss to others becomes significant in the future. I see no other alternative. This ain't Bean Bag.

Also, I have three computers on my desks and accounts everywhere. In other words, there are live missiles in the silos.