I know some of you Can't Stand Hellmuth, but sometimes, he amazes me. - Page 3

four eight suited · #21 02-25-2005, 03:55 PM

I believe Mike Caro's play with J6o is straight out of sklansky's TPFAP. It is the whole bet 2-5x the pot in BB facing limpers, especially the button and little blind limpers. It makes little sense for the button or SB just to limp with a huge hand hoping for a raise, thus a much wider gap for Caro to raise big with a less than marginal hand

Grindin' · #22 02-25-2005, 03:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think i'll be impressed when he makes it back to a final table without being invited.

[/ QUOTE ]

like he has 2 (3?) times in the first two seasons?

[/ QUOTE ]

but what has he done lately? that's why i said "makes it back"

[/ QUOTE ]

How about Howard Lederer? Phil Ivey? They haven't made a WPT since season ONE! Their game has fallen off even worse than Hellmuth's. Oh my god.. terrible

[/ QUOTE ]
Phil Ivey is too busy dominating the cash games, though he's paying more focus to tournaments now. I know you're being sarcastic but just wanted to add that Phil Hellmuth is more of a one-dimensional player, he does well in tournaments but is very weak in the side games.

Army Eye · #23 02-25-2005, 04:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Phil Ivey is too busy dominating the cash games, though he's paying more focus to tournaments now. I know you're being sarcastic but just wanted to add that Phil Hellmuth is more of a one-dimensional player, he does well in tournaments but is very weak in the side games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hellmuth's pretty much in the same boat, only caring to play in the big $10k events. It's just amazing to me that some people take such a small sample size of large-field tournaments, and try to draw any conclusions. 2+2 posters are generally well-informed but not so much in this particular forum [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

JoeTable · #24 02-25-2005, 04:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Phil wins that thing hands down if Doyle doesn't spike his ace on the turn. What are you going to do when you trap your opponent in a 900k+ pot and he sucks out? Hellmuth remains one of the best 5 players on the planet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hellmuth doesn't get to ~900K except that he had sucked out on Caro/Sexton/etc. 4 times earlier in the broadcast.

And I am not a Hellmuth basher, his 9 bracelets speak for themselves. But he isn't as good as he thinks he is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's not forget that Sexton LET Helmuth suck out on him and that he was pot committed against Caro and was completely justified in winning that hand.

JoeTable · #25 02-25-2005, 04:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's fair to say Hellmuth suffers from severe FPS. That's fancy play syndrome to those who were wondering. He over-slowplays and trys to trap all the time and sure it looks amazing when it works well but giving your opponent freecards so often, you're bound to have it bite you in the rear. When Hellmuth pushed all-in on the flop against Brunson with an open-ended straight draw, Brunson called with second pair without any hesitation. Why? Because he knew if Phil had any hand, he'd be slowplaying it! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Brunson was going to see the river on that hand no matter how Helmuth played it. That wasn't a read by any stretch.

MonkeeMan · #26 02-25-2005, 06:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why is everyone hating on my boy Josh for? I for one think he's a pretty skilled poker player who's full of gamble.

[/ QUOTE ]

Might have something to do with the way he obnoxiously berates anyone else who gambles with him. Classy he ain't.

toots · #27 02-25-2005, 06:16 PM

I haven't read that many people assert that Hellmuth is a poor player. Indeed, I think he's a great Hold 'Em player.

The reason he gets trashed so much is...

Well, if neither you nor he can figure out why, then the problem's sort of self-referential.

TimTimSalabim · #28 02-25-2005, 06:21 PM

My favorite was when Sexton said Phil was looking for a full-length mirror so he could go talk to himself. Classic.

riffraff · #29 02-25-2005, 07:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Phil wins that thing hands down if Doyle doesn't spike his ace on the turn. What are you going to do when you trap your opponent in a 900k+ pot and he sucks out? Hellmuth remains one of the best 5 players on the planet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hellmuth doesn't get to ~900K except that he had sucked out on Caro/Sexton/etc. 4 times earlier in the broadcast.

And I am not a Hellmuth basher, his 9 bracelets speak for themselves. But he isn't as good as he thinks he is.

[/ QUOTE ]

The "suckout" vs Sexton was nothing of the sort. Mike was either too timid or thought he could get more action from Phil on the river. The others happened after Phil raised (vs opponents who haven't even looked at their cards) and called the all-in re-raises because he was PRICED IN. Even as a 40/60 dog Phil has to call 40k more on a 200k+ pot.

Grindin' · #30 02-25-2005, 09:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Phil Ivey is too busy dominating the cash games, though he's paying more focus to tournaments now. I know you're being sarcastic but just wanted to add that Phil Hellmuth is more of a one-dimensional player, he does well in tournaments but is very weak in the side games.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hellmuth's pretty much in the same boat, only caring to play in the big $10k events. It's just amazing to me that some people take such a small sample size of large-field tournaments, and try to draw any conclusions. 2+2 posters are generally well-informed but not so much in this particular forum [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
I never challenged Hellmuth's performance in tournaments whatsoever. He's without a doubt on any top ten tournament performers list for Hold'em. I'm just stating what Mason Malmuth said about Stu Ungar, he doesn't consider him a great POKER player because he only excelled in tournaments not the side games. I'm just using Mason's definition of a pinnacle poker player.