KJs, and a 30 BB pot...

chaz64 · #1 02-25-2005, 02:22 PM

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, MP2 raises, 2 folds, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls.

I usually raise with KJs in LP, but not in EP.

Flop: (12 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, MP2 bets, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Two back door draws, one (tainted?) overcard, plus a big pot equals one call.

Turn: (9 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, Hero calls, MP2 raises, Button 3-bets, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero caps, MP2 calls all in ($1), BB calls, UTG calls.

I didn't want to knock anyone out here with the flush draw but felt I could cap it near the end of the action.

River: (26.75 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 29.75 BB

PFR is all-in and if he's good so be it, but I thought my TP might be good enough against the others for a bet.

Anyone play it differently? Comments appreciated.

Entity · #2 02-25-2005, 02:25 PM

Your turn cap is correct if you can get 3 callers at full price. It doesn't look like you can, though, given MP2's short stack, so I'd just call. I don't think it makes much of a difference at all unless you somehow manage to knock out UTG and BB, which seems unlikely.

River bet is fine as long as the other two are calling-stationish.

Rob

bodi · #3 02-25-2005, 04:28 PM

I think the river bet is bad. guy with 99 or aa thinks you have qq b/c of turn aggression and is calling you down. maybe other guy has aq or q9?

Thigh · #4 02-25-2005, 04:39 PM

I guess this shows me how much I have yet to learn. Can someone enlighten as to why cap'n the bet on the turn is good?

The way I see it, he's getting raised every hand by mp2, who raised PF. If it was the other side, we would say, you bet partly for information, if someone has top pair or more, they'll raise you. So this guy does that, but it's alright to cap the betting with this hand?

I'm lost everyone...

chaz64 · #5 02-25-2005, 04:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I guess this shows me how much I have yet to learn. Can someone enlighten as to why cap'n the bet on the turn is good?

The way I see it, he's getting raised every hand by mp2, who raised PF. If it was the other side, we would say, you bet partly for information, if someone has top pair or more, they'll raise you. So this guy does that, but it's alright to cap the betting with this hand?

I'm lost everyone...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm doing it for value - I have a four flush, a gutshot, and an overcard.

davelin · #6 02-25-2005, 04:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I guess this shows me how much I have yet to learn. Can someone enlighten as to why cap'n the bet on the turn is good?

The way I see it, he's getting raised every hand by mp2, who raised PF. If it was the other side, we would say, you bet partly for information, if someone has top pair or more, they'll raise you. So this guy does that, but it's alright to cap the betting with this hand?

I'm lost everyone...

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero has a flush and a gutshot draw giving him about 12 outs (plus some for the K overcard, minus some for a flush giving someone else a boat) which gives him about 25% equity. Thus assuming all with call, this cap takes advantage of his equity.

Absolution · #7 02-25-2005, 04:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I guess this shows me how much I have yet to learn. Can someone enlighten as to why cap'n the bet on the turn is good?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a simple value raise. You have way more than your fair share against 3 opponents with your draws. I'd estimate your outs at about 13 conservatively. So, 4 people in the pot calling and you winning around 30% = easy cap. You can often raise for value on the turn with big draws. Don't miss them. Like Entity said though, if you can't get a full bet out of one of your opponents, just call.

Hope that helps.

rafct · #8 02-25-2005, 04:54 PM

<blockquote>Respondendo a:<hr />
I guess this shows me how much I have yet to learn. Can someone enlighten as to why cap'n the bet on the turn is good?

The way I see it, he's getting raised every hand by mp2, who raised PF. If it was the other side, we would say, you bet partly for information, if someone has top pair or more, they'll raise you. So this guy does that, but it's alright to cap the betting with this hand?

I'm lost everyone...

[/ QUOTE ]

Any 10 gives him a straight - 4 outs
Any spade makes him a flush - 9 outs

So he would have around 13 outs, probably less cause he does not necessarily win when he hits these hands. but with 13 outs you win around 28% of the time on the river and your odds are near 1 to 2,5, so if you get 3 callers a raise would profit.
At least thats how I understood it..

davelin · #9 02-25-2005, 04:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I guess this shows me how much I have yet to learn. Can someone enlighten as to why cap'n the bet on the turn is good?

The way I see it, he's getting raised every hand by mp2, who raised PF. If it was the other side, we would say, you bet partly for information, if someone has top pair or more, they'll raise you. So this guy does that, but it's alright to cap the betting with this hand?

I'm lost everyone...

[/ QUOTE ]

Any 10 gives him a straight - 4 outs
Any spade makes him a flush - 9 outs

So he would have around 13 outs, probably less cause he does not necessarily win when he hits these hands. but with 13 outs you win around 28% of the time on the river and your odds are near 1 to 2,5, so if you get 3 callers a raise would profit.
At least thats how I understood it..

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't double-count your outs.

JerseyTom · #10 02-25-2005, 04:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I guess this shows me how much I have yet to learn. Can someone enlighten as to why cap'n the bet on the turn is good?

The way I see it, he's getting raised every hand by mp2, who raised PF. If it was the other side, we would say, you bet partly for information, if someone has top pair or more, they'll raise you. So this guy does that, but it's alright to cap the betting with this hand?

I'm lost everyone...

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero picks up a very strong draw on the turn and has so many outs that he can raise this turn for value after calling the first bet and getting it raised behind him.

Hero will make his hand on the river (more or less the nuts) with any of 9 spades and the 3 non-spade T's. With 12 outs and a total of 46 unseen cards, Hero is a 34:12 (or ~2.833:1) underdog to make his draw. This means he can raise for value if he knows that at least 3 players will call his raise (and they usually will after calling/making at least one bet on the round).

He has 5 opponents on the turn, but 1 was all-in for 3 turn bets and another folded, so he actually got clear value here (something like 3.75:1).

I probably just check-call the river in this huge pot, getting 27.75:1.

Tom