How to increase my PLO8 profit and should I even play it?

[karokari]

(I posted this orginally to pot limit omaha section, but got only one answere, hopefully more here!)

Hello,

Been reading this nice forum for a while and now its time lose my virginity.
I started playing plo8 about 3 months ago back when I got boored of nl holdem. I started out in 0.2/0.4pl games, and have won now my way up to 1/2pl and I have 15buyins to this, enough? But Ive been thinking how I could increase my profits so I would soon hit the 5/10 level . Couple things about my play: I play about 20% hand when not counting blinds, and 90% of those I raise preflop pot. And if I raise preflop I bet the flop in most cases.
Usually im only bluffing on flop with pot-bet when it seems like everybody has missed.
I push my nutlows usually hard even when I have zero high-value.
Is all this basic? Some advices to take my game on next level?

I will right the next sentence with big letters, because its my biggest problem: MY HAND READING SKILLS ARE ALMOST NON EXCISTING AND I PLAY SAME WAY AGAINST 90% OF OPPONENTS, I ONLY DO ADJUST AGAINST MANIACS AND CALLING STATIONS. SO HOW DO I GET BETTER AT READING MY OPPONENTS AND PICKING UP BETTING-PATTERNS?


And the final question, should I even play this game,hen I wanna make money? Im thinking about something like $10k/months in next summer, is this possible?

Thank You for reading

[benfranklin]

[ QUOTE ]
SO HOW DO I GET BETTER AT READING MY OPPONENTS AND PICKING UP BETTING-PATTERNS?


And the final question, should I even play this game,hen I wanna make money? Im thinking about something like $10k/months in next summer, is this possible?



[/ QUOTE ]

The answer to your first question is experience. The only way to learn this is to play thousands and thousands of hands. You need to play those hands at a level you can afford, without worry of going broke. And you need to play those hands one, or at most two, tables at a time. This gives you the time to concentrate on your opponents and to take notes.

That also answers the next question: from what you said in your post, you don't have the experience or bankroll to make that kind of money at this time. You need to play at a level where you are comfortable. If you win consistently for 10-20 thousand hands, and build up a sufficient bankroll, then you are ready to move up a level and start over.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
(I posted this orginally to pot limit omaha section, but got only one answere, hopefully more here!)

Hello,

Been reading this nice forum for a while and now its time lose my virginity.
I started playing plo8 about 3 months ago back when I got boored of nl holdem. I started out in 0.2/0.4pl games, and have won now my way up to 1/2pl and I have 15buyins to this, enough? But Ive been thinking how I could increase my profits so I would soon hit the 5/10 level . Couple things about my play: I play about 20% hand when not counting blinds, and 90% of those I raise preflop pot. And if I raise preflop I bet the flop in most cases.
Usually im only bluffing on flop with pot-bet when it seems like everybody has missed.
I push my nutlows usually hard even when I have zero high-value.
Is all this basic? Some advices to take my game on next level?

I will right the next sentence with big letters, because its my biggest problem: MY HAND READING SKILLS ARE ALMOST NON EXCISTING AND I PLAY SAME WAY AGAINST 90% OF OPPONENTS, I ONLY DO ADJUST AGAINST MANIACS AND CALLING STATIONS. SO HOW DO I GET BETTER AT READING MY OPPONENTS AND PICKING UP BETTING-PATTERNS?


And the final question, should I even play this game,hen I wanna make money? Im thinking about something like $10k/months in next summer, is this possible?

Thank You for reading

[/ QUOTE ]


the ability to read hands is not as important in omaha 8 as it is in holdem...id say that evaluating the texture of a flop and maximizing profit are the two most essential skills involved in this game. most of the hand reading that you will be doing in omaha 8 will come on the later streets.

[jakuda]

One big hole I would fix is how you always push your nut-lows with zero high potential.

[JoshuaMayes]

This is my main game, but I am still a relative beginner. I play mainly the $25 PLO8 games at party. My thoughts are interspersed.

[ QUOTE ]
(I posted this orginally to pot limit omaha section, but got only one answere, hopefully more here!)

Hello,

Couple things about my play: I play about 20% hand when not counting blinds, and 90% of those I raise preflop pot.


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't do very much preflop raising in PLO8. In general, I think preflop raising will add little to your EV and much to you variance. Because hand values change so much on the flop, I look to get in cheap and punish opponents when I hit. Because the max buy-in is small relative to the blinds at party, getting it all-in by the end of the hand is usually not a problem, even in an unraised pot. If you play in a game with deeper stacks, I can see preflop raising being a more worthwhile play.

[ QUOTE ]

And if I raise preflop I bet the flop in most cases.


[/ QUOTE ]

When I notice players who do this, I call their raises and then hit them with big raises or check-raises. Most of the players at $25PLO8 don't pay enough attention to take advantage of your propensity to make this play, however. At higher limits, I suspect that this will cost you.

[ QUOTE ]

I push my nutlows usually hard even when I have zero high-value.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a huge leak IMO. Playing for 1/2 the pot in PLO8 is the path to disaster. If you play heads up with someone else holding a nut low who has even a pair for high, you will lose 1/2 your stack, if they have only a high you get your money back. Putting $ in the pot where the best you can hope for is to break even is not a winning recipe.

[ QUOTE ]


I will right the next sentence with big letters, because its my biggest problem: MY HAND READING SKILLS ARE ALMOST NON EXCISTING AND I PLAY SAME WAY AGAINST 90% OF OPPONENTS, I ONLY DO ADJUST AGAINST MANIACS AND CALLING STATIONS. SO HOW DO I GET BETTER AT READING MY OPPONENTS AND PICKING UP BETTING-PATTERNS?


[/ QUOTE ]

This just comes with experience. The more hands you see, the more you will recognize similar situations. Keep notes on players whom you face often. For example, if you notice that a particular player always goes for a steal if checked to on the turn, use it to put a big check-raise on him every so often. Or, if you notice that someone makes blocking bets on the river when a scare card comes off that doesn't help them, put a big raise in and take the pot away. Just be sure that your notes are accurate. Some players who make blocking bets also make small, milking bets with the nuts. If so, you need to know about it.

[ QUOTE ]

And the final question, should I even play this game,hen I wanna make money? Im thinking about something like $10k/months in next summer, is this possible?


[/ QUOTE ]

I love this game. It has very little variance relative to limit, and it is easier than NLHE. I am not sure about your aspirations. The highest online PLO8 games that I have seen with any action are $400 buy-in. I don't think 10k/month is a realistic expectation in those games. Maybe 2K-4K or so. A very good player that I know from another forum makes around 2.5K/month playing part time in the highest PLO8 games offered online. I have never seen PLO8 spread in a casino. So if you have aspirations of making a living playing PLO8, you will probably need to pick another game. Anyway, hope this helps, and maybe one of the more experienced players will chime in.

I think PLO is a completely different creature from limit, unlike the difference between NL or PL Hold'em and limit HE. So I question whether ideas about how to play PLO transfer well to a limit game (my experience is that they do not).

I played PLO for a few months and went back to limit. Yes, I got killed. I don't think my experience with limit Omaha/8, which I've been playing for about 10 years, transferred well to the PLO game. I can elaborate if anyone cares (and it would not surprise me if you do not).

[JoshuaMayes]

Niss,
I am interested to hear about your experiences in PL. I, too had played alot of limit O/8 (about 18 months worth) before I started playing PLO8. I found the move relatively painless. PLO8 is a lot less frustrating for me, because I am less likely to see my nut/nut hands go down in flames on the river because any big pot is usually heads up or three handed by that point. The variance is also much less, because I don't play a big pot unless I have at least half the pot locked up. I can also win pots without the best hand, which is nearly impossible in low-limit O/8. The only drawback is that I regularly have to fold hands that I am certain are good for one side of the pot, because there are never enough players around at showdown to justify playing for 1/2 the pot and because getting 1/4ed for your whole stack blows. As another plus, most of the players at the party PLO8 tables are absolutely horrible.

[karokari]

Thx for everyone for input. Im most likely going to take plo8 very seriously next month, and try out if I could really make enough money from this.

The $10k/month was just a daydream, its very hard to get even $4k/month here from a normal job. And even if that would be your payment taxes take 40% of that.

So if I as a stundent could make $3k/month I would be very very happy..

Lets see what happens!

[RickyG]

The Sandia Casino in Albuquerque has a PL $10-$25 Blind game.