Smooth move or poor play?

PotatoStew · #1 02-21-2005, 11:29 PM

This was a Party Poker two table SNG multi. Down to the final table, and I have the chip lead, but not by much. My opponent in this hand seems a bit loose, but hasn't done anything too crazy that I've noticed.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) converter

UTG+1 (t1842)
MP1 (t1318)
MP2 (t694)
MP3 (t1597)
CO (t2489)
Hero (t3830)
SB (t2715)
BB (t3570)
UTG (t1945)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
6 folds, Hero raises to t500, SB calls t400, 1 fold.

Flop: (t1200) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets t400, Hero calls t400.

Turn: (t2000) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets t600, Hero raises to t1200

My thinking here is that since I raised PF, if he really has a flush, he probably wouldn't bet into me on the flop. So he may fear a flush himself if he doesn't have one. By merely calling and then raising the turn, I hope to look as though I either have the flush, or something else very strong. With his stack, I wouldn't think he'd want to get involved without something super strong here, like the flush. His turn bet seems weak to me -- if it was a lot higher, I may have abandoned this line.

I'm also thinking that though I have the chip lead now, the gap is definitely closing, and to have a good shot at the money (top 4) I'll need a little extra.

Is this line way off base? Was I needlessly jeproadizing my lead? Or are gambles like this sometimes advisable in this spot? Does my thinking about the play itself sound logical, or am I talking crazy talk?

Thanks for any input.

Cland · #2 02-21-2005, 11:56 PM

I don't like this play. too much risk.

Even if he has 1 heart your behind, possibly drawing dead to whatever you make.

Raiseing pre flop is good, you have an excellent chance of stealing the blinds, and if you do get called you can hit alot to give you a follow up bet.

You have to think what would he call with, you have to think what would he call with, my immedate thought is going to be something suited or an ace.

you said:
[ QUOTE ]
My thinking here is that since I raised PF, if he really has a flush, he probably wouldn't bet into me on the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a valid point, but the question I ask you is if he's betting to try and get you out of the pot then why wouldn't he raise you the minimum.

I don't think your way out of line tho. I don't think this was an advisable gamble tho. LIke the stealing the blind but it didn't pan out (in fact its probly one of the more worse flops for you) he was the agressor you have to respect him.

Superfluous Man · #3 02-22-2005, 12:02 AM

You're giving him better than 6:1 with that tiny turn raise, so he'll be right to call with his lone heart. And since you said he's loose, he'll probably call with his Ax, which, by the way, has you buried.

One problem here is that you don't really have room to maneuver. If you make any sort of decent raise on the flop (which is where, if your stack were deeper, a raise might be a good play against someone who you think will lay down here), you're going to have to call if he pushes (and when he pushes, you'll be drawing dead or close to it). On the turn, if he pushes and you fold, you've just wasted over half your stack. That's about as needless as a gamble can get.

This may sound weak-tight, but I'd fold this flop. You'll have many stealing opportunities with your stack. And you may even catch a hand or two.

PotatoStew · #4 02-22-2005, 10:04 AM

Thanks for the replies... he folded, so I was happy with the results, but in the middle of it, I realized that if I was wrong about his hand or if he was even looser than I'd thought I'd be in big big trouble. So, I think you two are right -- it probably wasn't worth the risk.

If my chip lead was larger (say 2x the next highest, just for argument's sake) would it be ok then? Or is the concern then not so much risking my lead, but doubling someone up unnecessarily? I guess a better question is "under what general circumstances is pulling a play like this advisable (if ever)"?

Sam T. · #5 02-22-2005, 10:24 AM

This is extremely read-dependant. I agree that the bets are incredibly weak, but with that board it's tough to know if it is "I've got an ace but no hearts" weak, or "I just flopped the nut flush" weak.

It's tremendously passive, and potentially expensive if a heart falls on the river and he bets into you, but if you are going to play this hand, I might have just called the turn bet as well. Unless he's got the flush he's going to have a tough time doing anything at all on the river except running up a white flag.

Best,

Sam