Check raised on the turn - fold?

sudic · #1 02-21-2005, 09:34 PM

Should you almost always fold if someone check raises you on the Turn?

Here's a couple of hands.

Hand 1)

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $2. MP2 posts a blind of $2.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 1 fold, MP1 (poster) checks, MP2 (poster) checks, Hero calls, 1 fold, Button calls, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, Button folds, UTG+1 raises, MP2 folds, Hero calls.

River: (9.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

Hand 2)

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero calls, 5 folds, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds.

Turn: (3 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero calls.

River: (7 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9 BB

Thanks for the help!

brettbrettr · #2 02-21-2005, 09:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Should you almost always fold if someone check raises you on the Turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

Hand 1 I'd 3-bet, hand 2 probably play it the same absent a read.

JackWilson · #3 02-21-2005, 09:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Should you almost always fold if someone check raises you on the Turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good lord no.

Hand 1: Old ladies fold to this check-raise. Real men reraise. The KQ straight is worrisome but your hand is very strong.

Hand 2: At just a quick glance it looks fine.

EDIT: Damn, guess we think alike eh? brettbrettr said everything I wanted to say and he was 1 minute faster than me too.

billyjex · #4 02-21-2005, 09:44 PM

I call down more than I fold from turn C/R.

You do realize you have top two pair in hand #1, right?

krishanleong · #5 02-21-2005, 09:46 PM

Hand 1 you should be 3-betting the turn.

Hand 2 calling down is fine.

Krishan

sudic · #6 02-21-2005, 09:46 PM

Yes!
I know.
But what if your read tells you that its a pretty strong player?

SparkyDog · #7 02-21-2005, 09:47 PM

I think I'd rather raise the river in position on hand one. I think you'll get 4 bets max from lower two pairs anyways, and you'll put in five bets less often against sets and straights if you raise the river as opposed to three-betting the turn.

JackWilson · #8 02-21-2005, 09:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think I'd rather raise the river in position on hand one. I think you'll get 4 bets max from lower two pairs anyways, and you'll put in five bets less often against sets and straights if you raise the river as opposed to three-betting the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see what you're saying.

Are the rare times when you improve to a full house on the river against a set or straight a legitimate reason to rather opt for the turn?

I'd like to hear more comments on this.

krishanleong · #9 02-21-2005, 09:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think I'd rather raise the river in position on hand one.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is bad because a diamond flush draw will pay on the turn and not the river.

Krishan

SparkyDog · #10 02-21-2005, 09:58 PM

Oh, bull. The whole turn check-raise semi-bluff a picked up flush draw is not used often by typical 2/4 players. The turn C/R almost always means your against a lower two pair, or you're in deep [censored] against a set.