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#1
02-21-2005, 12:37 PM
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too weak or good fold?
10-20 full game on Party. Game is good mix of solid and your typical knuckleheads.
preflop: I limp with KQs after 2 limpers in mid position. folded to button, solid player maybe a little weak who raises BB calls all the rest call. Flop: A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]none of my suit, do I like this flop? BB bets 1 caller to me I think about raising but just call to see how the hand goes down. Button raises the BB re-raises next player calls I fold. Too weak or just right? Thanks for your input if there is any, I will post the results later. Swiss Cheese 
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#3
02-21-2005, 12:56 PM
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Re: too weak or good fold?
This is certainly a tough spot. With the draw heavy board I think you have to at least see the turn- people put in all sorts of action on the flop with draws and top pair and whatnot. I think you should have raised the flop.
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#4
02-21-2005, 12:57 PM
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Re: too weak or good fold?
i think that this is indeed a bit too weak here...you should trust your first instinct and raise the flop, if its raised back to you, its your call whether you want to see a turn and raise there or cap it right off...since the most likely hands to want to get in a cap on the flop and not wait till the turn are AhXh or some other heart draw, it makes sense to cap now and bet the turn if the draw raiser will check the turn...if you think he'll bet the turn then call and raise the turn...
but, the raiser out of the blinds is a concern here b/c you said he's weak...if you raise and he 3bets and youcap and then he goes ahead and bets the turn, you should fold because its likely you're against a set or AK... and you have nothing to draw to. also, you should raise preflop with KQs after 2 limpers -Barron
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#7
02-21-2005, 02:48 PM
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Re: too weak or good fold?
[ QUOTE ]
I raise pre flop and on the flop. Hard to know where you are at the way you played it. [/ QUOTE ] One of my pokerisms: "you never learn anything about your opponents hand by calling." I agree, with previous posts, too weak all the way around. raise after 2 limpers PF. You probably have the best drawing hand out there, if you pair, it will be top pair with a winning kicker 95% of the time. You could make a good argument for limping with KQs, but this was off-suit, correct? On the flop, you have to assume you have the best hand, it is just a matter of how you want to play it - bet it to the max on the flop or set up a raise on the turn? That depends on your player reads: the possibility that the BB has JT, the effect on later action in the hand of having more money in the pot, etc, etc. I really don't know why you folded here. If this was a live game and you had some tell or just a really good read that JT or AK was out there, I could understand it, but you'd have to be damn sure of your read to fold such a sweet flop. CSC
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#8
02-21-2005, 03:09 PM
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Re: too weak or good fold?
[ QUOTE ]
10-20 full game on Party. Game is good mix of solid and your typical knuckleheads. preflop: I limp with KQs after 2 limpers in mid position. [/ QUOTE ] The irony is almost too much to handle [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]
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#9
02-21-2005, 03:24 PM
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Re: too weak or good fold?
To all replys,
I guess that nobody is taking into account the fact that the button is a bit weak. I am in agreement with the raise on the flop, but after a raise from the player in question and the 3 bet I can safely lay this hand down, against the player on the button and the range of hands that can be 3 bet that have me beat and not just beat but drawing DEAD!!!!!!! this was my biggest reason for the fold....the range of hands the button would raise, the ones I could beat and the ones I was drawing dead against. Another consideration is that I am in between the players and don't like that position. Turn: X River:K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Button had AA and SB had A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]X [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Thanks for all input and is much appreciated Swiss Cheese
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#10
02-21-2005, 07:07 PM
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Re: too weak or good fold?
Hey Swiss-
I agree you can sometimes make these folds even on Party against the more passive-type players. Just a little while ago I mucked AJ on an AK8 board. I had raised pre-flop and got two callers plus the bb. I bet the flop and it was raised and 3-bet by the passive player. Easy enough fold. But your hand is different, mainly because since you never bet your hand the entire way, you can't know what others might think constitutes a good hand of their own. Don't you think the button would've raised the flop if he held AJs or ATs? You folded mainly because of the 3-bet by the bb and you had HIM beat. I'm not saying it was a bad fold, but I think you should be willing to test your hand a little more (and for heaven's sake raise this hand pre-flop!). I can't speak for the 10-20 games on Party, but this type of passive play in the 15-30 games will get you eaten you up. IMO-
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