Weak or standard

JDErickson · #1 02-18-2005, 03:19 PM

Seeing lots of this play at Party 3/6 lately. Opponent is 46/2

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 5 folds, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop: (5.33 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Turn: (3.66 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (5.66 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.66 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Jh As (one pair, aces).
Button has 9s Kd (one pair, kings).
Outcome: Hero wins 9.66 BB. 

After the hand I always feel weak calling the raise. How do others handle this situation?

belloc · #2 02-18-2005, 03:25 PM

Against a better opponent (one who doesn't coldcall raises without a decent hand) this might be a c/c, c/c, bet the river sort of scenario, where you're way ahead or way behind on this board. But if he's as loose as your stats show, he could be holding a smaller AX, or K8s, or just about anything. Bet until he tells you to stop. Which he did on the river, so you're probably beat, but against this player you might have to call this bet. (I didn't look at the results.)

EDIT: I looked at the results. Wow. Right-click, Player Notes.

Fat Nicky · #3 02-18-2005, 03:30 PM

I don't see many players do this in this spot when they can't beat 1 pair of Aces. If villain has passive postflop stats after a significant amount of hands, i'll fold, but other than that, i suck it up and call.

Rafael_Luiz · #4 02-18-2005, 03:34 PM

You have to ask which hands the K on the river improved to beat your aces. If he had AK or AQ, you were already in trouble, but he would have raised the flop or turn. Same with a set in most cases. After eliminating these hands, you can fear K8 K5 and K2, all of which would be loose preflop calls, but hey - he is loose. A reraise seems to make sense thinking about the hands that now beat you and the odds he has one of them, but it isn't the obvious play, especially considering if he's bluffing he'll fold anyway, and if you are beat, you risk the 4-bet.

Fat Nicky · #5 02-18-2005, 03:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A reraise seems to make sense thinking about the hands that now beat you and the odds he has one of them, but it isn't the obvious play, especially considering if he's bluffing he'll fold anyway, and if you are beat, you risk the 4-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

no

spydog · #6 02-18-2005, 03:39 PM

I should fold these against passives, but I have a hard time ever folding TP headsup. I would be slightly concerned with Villian making a last stab attempt at the pot with a busted flush draw if he's any way aggressive. I think you got lucky here as against most 46/2 opponents you are toast when they raise the river in this spot.

NOTE: You probably should cut the hand history off at your river decision for better feedback.

private joker · #7 02-18-2005, 03:40 PM

This is pretty standard. You obviously shouldn't fold to this raise, but what are you gonna do: 3-bet a pair? Think of the number of hands that will call your 3-bet that you beat, vs. the number of hands that will call that beat you and that will cap that beat you. 3-betting this river would be chip-spewing and you should probably control that instinct. But don't fold to random raises either. Calling is the only logical action in this situation.

belloc · #8 02-18-2005, 03:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You have to ask which hands the K on the river improved to beat your aces. If he had AK or AQ, you were already in trouble, but he would have raised the flop or turn. Same with a set in most cases. After eliminating these hands, you can fear K8 K5 and K2, all of which would be loose preflop calls, but hey - he is loose. A reraise seems to make sense thinking about the hands that now beat you and the odds he has one of them, but it isn't the obvious play, especially considering if he's bluffing he'll fold anyway, and if you are beat, you risk the 4-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't reraise here, this is a fold against a decent player, and a call against a loose player.

flair1239 · #9 02-18-2005, 03:42 PM

I have seen it a lot too. The solid players are doing it with their small aces and the bad players, have started doing it with any pair. Anyway pretty standard for your part, I don't know that you want to get into the habit of folding TPGK for one bet on a board that is not really that intimidating

There is a time and a place for that play, but a lot of people just use it for an excuse to be passive, with a hand that makes them uncomfortable. (EDIT: refering to the call-call-raise play)

LotusBoy · #10 02-18-2005, 04:07 PM

I have seen some of this lately. I will 3-bet to gamble against if he has cold-called PF with K8s or K5s, any sets 8,5,2 would've shown up in flop or turn already. And most of all, He will call 3-bet if he improved to K pair because he is loose. If he is not that loose, 3-bet has less +EV.

I think He was thinking you bluffed your busted flush draw, ,which a lot people does, or betting mid pair against another draw all the way.
But he made a mistake of raising, instead of calling, with his bluff catcher.