Live Play - Is this typical?

[Sarge85]

Are these things common in B&M play?

I’ve been at our local casino several times now. Casino is a very loose term in this instance. They have one table of poker - $3/$6 and spread the other traditional games as well. – Black Jack , Pai Gow, etc. – no slots, or craps, or roulette.

Anyway, our population is under 30,000 – so we are a fairly small town. The upshot is we have a college University in town so it seems the games are generally full of 20 somethings – and a few older guys.

Some casual observations that I would like to know are considered the norm.
<ul type="square"> [*]Rarely do players raise PF. In fact they will lament how they never raise with Aces, Kings, Queens – and God forbid raising with such weak holdings as JJ or AK. The corallary to this is - if on occasion it is raised PF - don't be shocked if it comes back capped
[*]Players are generally passive pussy-cats post flop. Even with strong holdings. Case in point – one hand I recollect – I held 42 in the big blind flopped two pair – Check raised the turn – met no resistance but was shown a straight by my opponent that he made on the turn. Yeah for me for not having to pay more.
[*]Value Bet the River? – Uh no. These players seem reluctant to bet any sort of hand, let alone top pair for value. I’ve seen hands go check-check and seen flushes, straights, and boats all go uncontested on the river.
[*]If you play a TAG game – I don’t believe you become well liked. Last time I sat down, and played my normal game, and I heard snickers at the table how I’ve raised more in the last 30 minutes that the table has all night. I’ve heard similar comments. Actually I think it makes me a target to take down –
[/list]Observation 4 leads me to a question. I’ve been reading some of Mike Caro’s stuff, and he is a proponent of keeping a fun loose image at the table – I think he uses the phrase “be fun to loose too.” I don’t think that’s me. Hard to be fun to loose to when you CR players on the turn and river.

Should I stop doing that? Is it hurting me in the long run?

Another question – The one time it happened all night, I was on the button, and the hand got folded to me. I head KT. Generally, I’d raise here. – but instead I folded.

I folded because there was 0% chance either of the blinds would fold to a raise and I wanted to be the nice guy in this case. I announced “Ah, go ahead and chop it” and mucked my hand. Leak? (silly me SB decided to play his hand – flop came King high – F-me!)

Is this just typical to live $3/$6 or just happens to be I have the largest fish pond in Washington?

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[Sarge85]

Holy sh*t.

I'm on the second page already - with a whopping 4 views.

Shameless bump I say - Shameless!

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[Redeye]

This sounds like just about every low limit live game I've ever played. Although I have run into tables with some more aggressive players and the occasional LAG, its almost always filled with loose passives. Even in the usual 6/12 game I play at my local B&amp;M I find the tables almost always filled with more LPs than aggressive players.

They're nice to play against, especially the extra loose passive ones that you can relentlessly value bet against. Sometimes you get suprised when they flip over AA on the river after you've been betting top pair the whole way, but it just that much better that you didn't have to pay more.

Some of these guys can be so predictable, passive that you can lay down hands pretty easy to a raise. The one thing I try to do less of though is c/r real fishy players in HU situations. I think that has a tendancy to give you a more aggressive image and make those players less likely to want to play against you.

[shant]

This is very typical of most of the games at casinos here in LA, except at Commerce where everyone raises before the flop and old grandma's call-cap with 67o.

[BottlesOf]

Sounds like players at your casino are especially nitty and lame and bad at poker. I say exploit it. Don't dump the KT there, raise or open limp on the button, even, b/c that rules. Don't worry about placating them. Obviously if it gets really bad you may have to do something, but I say [censored] them.

[Zez]

Welcome to live play. This is normal. If anything, I've been noticing players getting more passive. Raise with AA, KK, QQ? Nah. AK? It never wins.

Part of this is the belief that "Aces never win" or that kings are "ace magnets", but also, things like high hand jackpots make them play passive hoping to see the river and get quads.

I'm amazed how many times I'll see it raised pre-flop with 5 or six callers. The flop comes down completely harmless maybe 8 high, and eveyone checks! What the hell are they raising/calling with that a lousy 8 scares them into submission?

But give me one of these games any day over a game where they are loose and aggressive and you have to decide if they capped it preflop just because raising is fun or because they actually have a hand this time.

Your last point is a problem. If you're playing TAG in these games, people start to grumble. And they do occasionally start to play back at you. I had a player, everytime I raised preflop, he'd raise me on the flop. No matter what. Fine, let him build the pot for me when I have the best hand, I figured. If they do start playing back at you, figure out how to use it to your advantage.

But overall, in my experience, even when the fish realize you are a tight player, they don't modify their play that much. I've had players snicker at me for "only playing aces" but they still call me down to the river to see those aces.

I think it's best to have the image Caro talks about, but it's a problem for me. Last night, a player I really wanted a call from, folded because, as he told the guy next to him, "He looks mean".

One last point. You have to always be aware of what kind of game you're in. The passive play can make you over sensitive to raises, and if you find yourself in a slightly more aggressive game, you'll get knocked off the winning hand.

Here's what happened in my last session: I raised in sb with QQ, it gets reraised by the UTG player. I just call. Six players to the flop of 467, I check, planning to check raise, but it's raised and reraised back to me. I toss my hand away. Turn and river were blanks. The winning hand? A6 suited. The other player had K6.

In the passive games I've been in lately, that kind of action means a set at least, or a flopped straight. I had to make adjustments to my thinking quickly.

[chief444]

For 3/6 live this is pretty common, especially if it's a table full of regulars. They would be very happy if everyone would just put their $3 preflop, flip over 5 cards and see who wins. I don't think raising and playing your normal aggressive game is a big deal but just keep it friendly otherwise. Keep in mind that these people for the most part are there for entertainment and to socialize more than to make money.

[Sarge85]

[ QUOTE ]

They're nice to play against, especially the extra loose passive ones that you can relentlessly value bet against. Sometimes you get suprised when they flip over AA on the river after you've been betting top pair the whole way, but it just that much better that you didn't have to pay more.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah - exactly case in point.

I'm on the button with 78s and limp.

BB raps

Flop comes 8 High

check to me, i bet, BB calls - other fold

Turn comes a duey.

check to me I bet-

River comes a T i think, still farily non threatning.
BB checks - I check it through thinking maybe my 7 kicker is in trouble.

BB turns over KK..... wtf?

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[bobbyi]

It sounds like you've found an unusually tough live 3/6 game [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img].

[profpeebody]

I strictly play live in Southern California. All players are loose. Depending on where I play, the games differ. Some of the club near the heart of LA (Commerce, Hollywood Park) are a bit tougher, more aggression but still loose. At a table, I'll usually get two loose passive players like you describe. Occasionally there is a maniac or a table full of passive players.

As for their reactions, you should stick to you game plan if you want to make the most money. Try to have fun but do not let the reactions or comments of others affect your game. If you are there for social reasons, you may want to let up a bit but I highly doubt you are going to the casino to make friends.