Tense situation - seeking advice

[Stew]

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, in an all-in situation, all 5 cards have to come out. Right?
Even though he mucked his hand, the 5th card should still come out.
However, with that said, he still should lose the pot. Mucked hand is a mucked hand, even if its the winner.

But since it was an all-in, all cards should be displayed.
We have had situations where someone was drawing dead on the flop and the turn and river ard still turned to make it 'official'.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, the cards only come out of the hand is still live. Once this bonehead mucked his hand, it is dead, the hand is over and the pot is awarded to the only player with a live hand.

There's a difference between drawing dead with two live hands and only having one live hand and everyone else's hand being dead.

Let's say you have AKh vs AJs all-in. The board comes JdJh7s. Dude with AK gets pissed, picks up his cards throws them across the table and they touch the muck. His hand is dead and that hand is over. Shuffle up and deal the next hand. Now, let's say whoever is dealing goes rabbit hunting and runner-runner hearts come with nothing pairing the board or giving the player with AJ a full-house. Old boy who coudln't control his temper just lost a hand he would have won (with the nut flush) if all the cards come out b/c he's a moron.

[smoore]

Dead hand. He picked up his cards prematurely and put them in the muck. Maybe next time he'll wait for the four outer. And I concur, the river should never have been dealt.

[Token Black Guy]

[ QUOTE ]
Player 1 makes a big raise, Player 2 goes all-in for not much more, Player 1 calls. Player 1 turns over pocket 3's, Player 2 turns over pocket Aces.
Thoughts??

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I want to join this home game.


On a side note- Damn, that [censored] is whack!

[Richard Tanner]

I appear to be the only one of this mind set, so I suppose I should speak out. I think this was wrong, once the hands are shown, the hand is played out nd a winner is declared. After he tables his hand it doesn't matter what he does to his cards. If he says "Call" and then flips his cards over, he can then take them and set them on fire, for all intents and purposes (although this will require a new deck, and I doubt he'll be invited back).

Cody

[Pov]

[ QUOTE ]
. . .once the hands are shown, the hand is played out nd a winner is declared. After he tables his hand it doesn't matter what he does to his cards . . .

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Once both hands were turned over all-in, the hand can no longer be mucked. Now if he saw the Aces and mucked without showing and then wanted to retrieve them after someone dealt out the hand anyway . . . . I can see an argument there, but in this case everyone at the table (and especially the dealer) knew what he had for a certainty and he was already all-in. I'm guessing the dealer was probably "calling" the hand even. If so, how can you possibly kill his hand? He can't muck even if he wants to. He wins the pot and gets an earful for how stupid he tried to be. That's how I see it anyway.

[Nickmast]

I'm gonna have to agree with POV on this. When a person goes all in, and gets called, it is the dealers duty to take both players hole cards and display them next to the board cards. A player that is all in cant then muck his cards. He is all in and has a right to see the hand played out. Sounds to me like he went all in, turned up his cards (the DEALER should have taken both players cards), saw the flop, thought he was drawing dead and RE-grabbed his cards from in FRONT of him (not from in front of the DEALER)and threw them across the table. Either way he was all in and is a LIVE hand until all board cards are turned over.

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
When a person goes all in, and gets called, it is the dealers duty to take both players hole cards and display them next to the board cards

[/ QUOTE ]

You watch too much tv.

[fishfeet]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
When a person goes all in, and gets called, it is the dealers duty to take both players hole cards and display them next to the board cards

[/ QUOTE ]

You watch too much tv.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. That is ONLY for TV purposes! Since the camera is showing the action from above in those situations, all cards are put in view.

I have NEVER played in a casino where the dealer touched my cards in an all-in (tourny or ring game)

Although, I do agree with the argument that an all-in is an all-in and the hand is playout reguardless.

Has anyone actually went to look up the official rules?

[JPotMaster]

From Robert's Rules-

2. Cards thrown into the muck may be ruled dead. However, a hand that is clearly identifiable may be retrieved at management’s discretion if doing so is in the best interest of the game. We will make an extra effort to rule a hand retrievable if it was folded as a result of incorrect information given to the player.

Even if you let everyone know that you were going by Robert's Rules it's still kind of unclear.
In my home game it's known that if you throw your cards, and they hit the muck, they're dead...period
It's a players responsibilty to protect their cards

I like the "Pre-mature muck, you're a dumb f*#k! rule

[Douper]

From Robert's Rules:

[ QUOTE ]

DEAD HANDS

1. Your hand is declared dead if:

(a) You fold or announce that you are folding when facing a bet or a raise.



(b) You throw your hand away in a forward motion causing another player to act behind you (even if not facing a bet).



(c) In stud, when facing a bet, you pick your upcards off the table, turn your upcards facedown, or mix your upcards and downcards together.



(d) The hand does not contain the proper number of cards for that particular game (except at stud a hand missing the final card may be ruled live, and at lowball and draw high a hand with too few cards before the draw is live). [See Section 16 - “Explanations,” discussion #4, for more information on the stud portion of this rule.]

(e) You act on a hand with a joker as a holecard in a game not using a joker. (A player who acts on a hand without looking at a card assumes the liability of finding an improper card, as given in Irregularities, rule #8.)

(f) You have the clock on you when facing a bet or raise and exceed the specified time limit.

2. Cards thrown into the muck may be ruled dead. However, a hand that is clearly identifiable may be retrieved at management’s discretion if doing so is in the best interest of the game. We will make an extra effort to rule a hand retrievable if it was folded as a result of false information given to the player.

3. Cards thrown into another player’s hand are dead, whether they are faceup or facedown.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing seems to really apply here except possibly 2)