Passing up small edges early (revisted yet again)

[Pat Southern]

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do you mean 1.1:1? 2.1:1 is easy. The real question is would you take 40-60 getting 2.1:1.

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I'd much rather take 40% on a 2.1-1 call than getting 1.1-1 on a 51% call. I'll take a 40% chance to triple up anyday.

[SoBeDude]

Also it says for MOST of your chips. you really shouldn't be playing for MOST of your chips early in a tourney, unless u have a really big hand.

Things to do early in a tourney:
1. Play aggressively
2. Gamble
3. Push small edges

playing this way early-on is important IMO. It allows you to establish image and control over the table when the price is cheap.

I also show all my big hands that aren't shown down so they get an image in their minds I'm playing big hands. Then later on, when the price gets expensive, I can steal more.

It also makes my opponents play predictibly against me. Once they know I'm willing to gamble and I'm playing big hands, my opponents really only play back at me with monsters. Easy to know where I am in the hand that way.

-Scott

[hurlyburly]

Good point about the LAG. I've fallen into the trap plenty of times when confusing a decent accumulator with a LAG. I've since adjusted by not playing back at them unless I have position on them or am within 5 of the nuts (preferably both).

The funny thing is, you can use the same strategy for both types of players. Accumulators tend to pounce when you show weakness, and LAGs pounce with what they perceive is strength, so it's much easier to slowplay hands that usually need to show strength to win. There is no fold equity, so it's never a question of "if" anyone's going to raise, it mostly comes down to how broad I need to set the gap.

[Lloyd]

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A quick question about this. Let's say that you knowingly put all your money in as a 53%/47% favorite four times in the first hour of a tourny. What are the odds you will see the second hour? I'm not saying you should fold as a favorite, but it makes me wonder then, is tournament poker any better than shooting dice?

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It all comes down to stack sizes. Obviously, if you're battling an equal stack size each time, you stand a good chance to get knocked out. But if you double up on the first "coin flip", and face somebody with a stack around the starting size on the second, the worst you are is back to starting stack size if you lose.

[hurlyburly]

Well thanks for bringing up such a hot topic!

Can't argue with Raymer and Phillips, results speak and they have em. I am not there yet tho, and can't make that style work often enough to be +$EV. I don't think any single style or gameplan is ever going to be the answer, it is obvious that a combination of tactics and strategy is what separates the winners from the "break even" players.

I'm dying to find a way to recognize early how I need to adjust to decide whether to go for early accumulation or bubble aggression to get to the final table. I've been following the cards, but sometimes they lie.

Thanks for the response about image, that's a good one. I'll post a hand from the other night that I suspect ruined me for the night in another thread as an example.

[docknet]

Hmmm...

I neglected to point out in that poll thread the DS says not to call an allin bet early in the MTT because it is most likely the allin player has AA.

[docknet]

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I hear this arguement all the time and I dont buy it. Every player is interested in winning and the only way to win a tournament is to stay alive as long as possible, or in fact, to stay alive until the very end.

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Here. Here. Survival does not entail not playing your premium hands; it simply means staying out of huge gambles while the crazies knock themselved out of the tourny.

[woodguy]

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it simply means staying out of huge gambles while the crazies knock themselved out of the tourny.


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You want the crazies money.
Since they are crazy, you can put them on a wider range of hands than a normal opponent and take some gambles with them.
With the crazies chips in your stack early you can accumulate more chips easier.

If there is easy money on the table, why would you want to sit back and let others get it?

Regards,
Woodguy

[jackdaniels]

There are 2 parts to this post - the first I disagree with and the second I do agree with.

I disagree with taking HUGE gambles early on (and by this I mean, low percentage gambles for most/all of my chips). I want to take HIGH percentage gambles for a lot/all of my chips early on - best done against crazies (this is the part I agree with), as no sane player is going to give you the high edge we are talking about for so many chips.

[IgorSmiles]

We were talking about small edges. Meaning getting your money in on a slight advantage coin flip or as a dog with slightly favorable calling odds. Obviously, if some knucklehead wants to go all in with 2nd pair and you have an overpair...well, we dont need much discussion on that.