I cold called with J8s

[beachbum]

[ QUOTE ]
if he didn't call preflop, he wouldn't have been able to make that atrocious postflop call

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you please tell me why getting 18:1 on my flop call was so bad? Please give me some numbers. If I don't get a club, K, or T on the turn, I'm folding. Hell, there's a good chance I'll fold even the K or T.

If the betting/calling sequence is the same on the turn, do I call a turn bet from the CO if for example the T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] comes off? Now I'm getting 11:1 with a 4 K gutshot outs that possibly are dirty because of the chance of the split.

[crunchy1]

[ QUOTE ]
Honestly, just now I realized the 3 paired the board. Oops.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not trying to be antagonizing here but, I think you've got bigger issues in your game than how to play J8s on the button. That being said posting a hand like this here is going to get some very aggressive responses from the community. I don't neccessarily condone these types of posts but, you have to expect them posting a hand like this. Find better ways to increase your VPIP than playing suited 2-gaps. Play any pair any position, Axs any position those are hands that can be +EV in the long run in the small stakes games - this play will not.

[beachbum]

[ QUOTE ]
Those pennies add up if you make a habit of doing it, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

These situations for a limper and 4 in for 2 bets already to me on the button with a hand like this happen so infrequently it doesn't add up to much one way or the other. This situation might happen 1 in 10000 hands. However, situations that vary slightly to this happen a bit more often. So I do need to more carefully monitor this now.

[adamstewart]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, if this hand isn't suited, I never even think of calling.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you hearing yourself?... "But it was soooooooted...."



Sorry to be hard on you, but think of our responses as "tough love." After all, the main purpose of these boards is to improve - not to support or 'play down' each others' bad plays.

The fact that you posted this hand means that you think some of these decisions were 'borderline.' I think not.

J,8s is a horrible hand to limp - even with 4 or 5 callers. Let alone *cold-call* with. Think about it: there's someone who has raised here, and about 4 others who have figured their hands are worth cold-calling with. How much equity do you really think you have here????

Further, what if the flop came Jack-high? Do you think you could still get away from this hand? Because you likely should.

The fact that you continued to chase with a jack-high backdoor flush draw and a double-gutshot tells me that you *wouldn't* be able to get away from a 'marginal' flop.

People keep saying "well, it isn't that bad of mistake... It's only 'cents' not 'dollars' " .... I say Bulls[/i]hit! A -EV play is still a -EV play.


Adam

[foofighter]

this is why i like it here [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[beachbum]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't neccessarily condone these types of posts but, you have to expect them posting a hand like this.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's fine. I'd rather post a hand like this and get flamed for it and learn from it, than not post at all. It's like never going to workout because you see everyone in better shape than you at the gym and it destroys your self esteem, especially when those others are condescending. I'm going to focus on me, my goals, focus on improving, and not be disheartened by what others say/think. I can take it. If others are posting with misplaced aggression, that's their issue.


[ QUOTE ]
Play any pair any position, Axs any position those are hands that can be +EV in the long run in the small stakes games - this play will not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not necessarily. If you're in a game limping with 22-66 or A2s-A7s in EP or MP first in or with one limper where it's being raised preflop 30%-50% of the time, then that's really not much better if at all than doing what I did. Now you're still seeing the flop for 2 SB out of position. The pocket pair is easy to dump on the flop when you don't hit, though. But the point is you don't want to be raised preflop when holding these hands.

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
J,8s is a horrible hand to limp - even with 4 or 5 callers.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. J8s is a fine limp in LP with 4 or 5 callers. I'm pretty sure Ed (and other good players here) would agree with that assessment.

Were one to play well postflop, as Nate has already pointed out, I think this coldcall wouldn't be that bad. J9s is my personal cutoff in this position, so I honestly don't think the coldcall is as bad as most people are making it out to be. I'd fold, but I don't see calling as being terrible.

Postflop is another story.

Rob

[beachbum]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to be hard on you, but think of our responses as "tough love." After all, the main purpose of these boards is to improve - not to support or 'play down' each others' bad plays.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know, dude. No worries.


[ QUOTE ]
J,8s is a horrible hand to limp - even with 4 or 5 callers. Let alone *cold-call* with.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're saying if 4 limp to you on the button with J8s, you don't play J8s?!? Dusting off the old HEPFAP, J8s is a group 6 hand that plays well in multiway pots. If you don't play it in this spot, I don't see where you do play it. IMO, folding J8s in this situation (not the cold-call situation) would be -EV.

[lu_hawk]

come on you have a suited 2 gapper with at least 4 other players in the hand plus more if the blinds come along. maybe it is a mistake to call preflop but if it is it is only a very small mistake. preflop is not 'atrocious' by any means.

[Michael Davis]

I think not limping if this situation were the same without the raise is terrible.

-Michael