Keeping the pot managable on the Turn

[Kovner]

So it seems to be general consensus that with some kind of vulnerable hand like top pair in position against a check-caller, you should check behind "to keep the pot manageable."
The knowledgeable NL players on this forum seem to disagree with the "make 'em pay for their draws" idea.

So can someone explain this idea? Why do you not want to make people pay for their draws? Is the idea that often when someone represents a draw, they have a monster so its too risky to put a big bet? Is it because you want to see a cheap showdown when the draw doesn't complete? Does this idea apply when you are out of position? Can anyone give some good types of situations you'd apply this idea to help me understand better?

[istewart]

The idea applies when you have something like KQ and the flop is K82r. Villain checks, you bet, he calls. The turn is a 4. Villain checks. Your hand is vulnerable but draws are minimal. If you're behind you give yourself a free river and don't lose as much.

[Usagi_yo]

I'll give a shot.

A bet on the flop has lower equity because there are two cards to come. This penalizes vulnerable hands that are probably ahead at the time, but with little chance of improvement, but it is attractive to strong drawing hands because they can get maximum equity with large bets on the flop. Like KdKs with a board of Qh Jh 8d. A player with a hand like AhTh, it might be entirely correct for them to go all in with two cards to come -- being a 56.4 to 43.6 match up.

The KK can give up some small equity on a flop bet by checking behind, to maximize equity on a turn bet where he now will be a 63.6% to 36.4% match up, and his opponant will be making a mistake in drawing -- then trying to extract the payoff value for their draw.

So I think some -- and I've done it, will check the flop behind somebody, then bet the turn to minimize risk and maximize gain.

This works even if the free card hits your opponant. Should they take sudden interest in the hand, there still out of position and unlikely to get paid off by cluefull and carefull players.

[freemoney]

the idea is if you are potting the flop and checking the turn behind, even if someone hits their draw and they lead out with the pot small they cant really make a huge bet here if they want to get called most of the time, this helps in giving them incorrect odds to draw out.

[Usagi_yo]

I don't understand. Seems to me Checking the flop, then betting the turn is alot more favorable to betting the flop, then checking the turn.